What (for you) is acceptable accuracy/power in a SHTF weapon?

[Rhodes]

Don't get me wrong I love the .308 and if I had a saiga .308 I would probably go to that before the 7.62x39, but if you are going to walk any distance that heavier ammo will add up quickly.  I have a 3 day loadout that I jog in to stay used to the weight and it consists of 300 rounds of 62x39, if I had switched that out with 300 rounds of 62x51 I would be doubling my ammo weight.  It is the reason we switched to 5.56 and I don't think it was a small reason.  Again suit your weapon to the job, and if you live in a rural area and will be bugging in, weight is not a huge issue, but to the guys living in the city who will be walking or running away, the heavy .308 may not be the optimal round.  I think you are better off with several weapons, you may have to leave some behind, but you can match what you pack to where you are going.

Congratulations on making the effort to be honestly prepared. Gotten to an Appleseed yet? Well worth the effort.

Its valid logic, you just have to keep in mind when the military, both US and USSR, choose these rounds it was for automatic fire reasons. The amount of ammo expended in that mode is horrid and accuracy just non-existent with any real recoil like the 308 (going auto on the M-14 was futile). So weight truly became an issue since load outs were huge. For instance, pre-assault weapon fire fights a rifleman would expend perhaps 40 rounds with a Garand while afterward 200 would be common even with the 3 round burst mode of the M-16.

Of course troops found auto-fire so ineffective they rarely employed it(and it made you a target), still the ammo usage was horrible perhaps for the reason of the ammo not being up to snuff perhaps other reasons account for the increase, I wont mention those for civil reasons. Either way you will need a lot less 308 to do the same job so when comparing load outs 200 rounds of 308 or 30/06 may well be as effective as much larger amounts of intermediate power cartridges.

On the subject of BoBs I take a different approach. The BoB is only for those situations where I may be unexpectedly cut off from home in some less than complete meltdown and must attempt to return for obvious reasons and retain some appearance of normality. My load out there is strictly 40SW pistol and folding carbine with six hi-cap mags that are common. Everything fits in a backpack even the supplies and would see me  better armed than most adversaries and still not terribly weighted down. If bugging out in deed then of course other arrangements have been made.

[nclpta]

for me, i prefer to be accurate to 100 yards (and that's a stretch)..  can be .22lr or 7.62 x39. 

[kpos101]

i hope people remember when they are talking about how accurate they can shoot and what theyre rifle can do----

nobody is shooting back at them--just saying

[SHOOTER Z]

I and some others know how they'll shoot with someone shooting at them!!

[battousai]

While I own plenty of guns. If God forbid I ever get in any gunfight much less at 100+ yards I am doing something REALLY wrong. Seeing as I am in an area that is heavy suburb I do not see allot of 100+ yard fights occurring. Currently I have a slew of 9mm lead to throw but that is best used in CQC at 1-40 yards.

Unce I upgrade my 995 with a nice red dot I will use a 995 92fs combo. (Although the 995 doesn't have high mag capacity it more then makes up for it in accuracy, size, and weight in my opinion. Until then my main armor will be a Winchester 12 gauge, and a Springfield 1911. Both combo's in my opinion are more suited for defensive situations or used in a group SHTF situation then offensive as I would be clearly outgunned at 50+ yards if my enemy brought any modest rifle.

To counter this I have thought about purchasing a Saiga 12 gauge or rifle rounds < .308. As I believe it would be the ultimate home defense tool and perhaps the best available suburb firearm choice. I wouldn't use a .308 round as I believe it would not be suited in urban combat. 5.56, 7.32x69, or .223 is the preferred round in an offensive scenario in neighborhood combat.

Here is another topic of discussion. When we talk about SHTF. What knife do you use? I am looking at purchasing a buck hunting knife for about $40 once my paycheck comes in.

[squidbilly]

I would settle for either my .45s the Kimber, or JHP for short work.... for long and even relative short range a Mini 14, Mini 30, or M1a would put me in HEAVEN and those in the cross hairs in hell. JMHO!

[blvdbuzzard]

The more I read the more I learn.

I bought a stainless synthetic Mini-14 a while back thinking it would be a good choice if the weather was bad and I got rained on.  I would not have to worry about the gun rusting.  Shortly after that I bought a Ruger P-89 9mm.  I did not buy either because they would put 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards, or 25 yards for the P-89.  I bought both because they were dead nuts reliable.  They are not the high dollar pretty looking guns.  They have worked well for me so far.

For me right now these are my SHTF guns.  If I have to go from work, middle of the city to home.  Not sure I could use a 308.  I do not think I would need to reach that far out.  I know neither of my guns have the stopping power of a 7.62X39 or the 308.  I still do not want to use them to shoot any one.  No would I like to receive a bullet from either of them.

For closer stuff around the home, I am working on getting a tactical shot gun.  I am also looking at a Savage 308 for longer reach.  I also have a Turkish 8mm Mauser and a Romanian M44.  Both of those would be way to heavy to go on any type of walk with.  They would be good for a second person to use while I am holding the scoped 308.  They could put rounds close to the target while I get a better look.

So as I typed this, is there a preference of stainless of blued or parkorized finishes on your guns?

Dru.

[daved931]

Given the natural terrain of Maine and my chosen BOL, I'm not overly concerned about taking shots over 50 yards.  When SHTF, I'll probably load a bunch of guns into my BOV, but the two I would consider most important are my .22LR with an inexpensive scope and my .44 Magnum.

[Rhodes]

i hope people remember when they are talking about how accurate they can shoot and what theyre rifle can do----

nobody is shooting back at them--just saying

It is preferred that you can reach out and touch the threat before they can tag you. In any situation that rifle will be easier to control especially with shaking hands (not the movie shaking you see sometimes but that low amplitude high frequency shaking that come from adrenaline). As for knowing what will happen when the fire goes goes both ways it all depends on training and you always wish you had more.

[Beowolf1911]

More braging then anything else but this seemed like a great place to post this, but I shot a sub MOA group with my Tech-sight equiped WASR-10 today, so I think my 7.62x69 is acceptable for accuracy in my book.  One thing that should be added to the discusion is range and location.  By that I mean if you live in a more open area a higher power higher velocity round would be benificial.  If you live in a heavily woodedarea with a lot of brush, as I do, you should make sure your chosen round performs well in brush.  If you live in a city range may not be an option and a 9mm carbine could be just the ticket.

[squidbilly]

Ya know for my locality, and of course in a perfect world where I have the money to buy what I want...LOL. A SOCOM II either open sight or red dot, a Barretta M-9, and a Mossburg 500 milspec shorty! I know what I can do with each under "simulated duress" (thank you Blackwater instructors) and how much ammo I can carry for each. Granted ya never know what you can really do until it happens!

[xstuntman]

 Lack of noise is what I'm going for. Small caliber, 22lr or 22 mag.
I was out yesterday shooting my Marlin 60 with mil-dot scope at a hundred yards. The Savage will get a scope next week and I'll be sending .22 mags out to two hundred yards 

Mike

[cbdolphin]

I live in a heavily wooded area, with lots of brush, well, where I would bug out to would be.

So a carbine length that I can hit a chest sized target at 100 yards or less, with stopping power and a hi cap mag that can last through the elements. That is an AK-47 all the way for me........

[Rhodes]

More braging then anything else but this seemed like a great place to post this, but I shot a sub MOA group with my Tech-sight equiped WASR-10 today, so I think my 7.62x69 is acceptable for accuracy in my book.  One thing that should be added to the discusion is range and location.  By that I mean if you live in a more open area a higher power higher velocity round would be benificial.  If you live in a heavily woodedarea with a lot of brush, as I do, you should make sure your chosen round performs well in brush.  If you live in a city range may not be an option and a 9mm carbine could be just the ticket.

Hmmm....pics.

Ive seen it done with a 308 Saiga shooting reloads but Ive never even heard of it from a WASR ever.

[Sedition]

The Mosin Nagant for the following reasons:

Stuff you know if you have a Mosin Nagant
It was last cleaned in Berlin in 1945.
You can hit the farm from two counties over.
What's a mag?
What's a safety?
Your rifle has dog collars.
Your bayonet is longer than your leg.
You can knock down everyone else's target just from the shock wave of your bullet going downrange.
When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.
Recoil often used to relocate shoulders thrown out by the previous shot.
Your sight adjustment goes to 12 miles and you've actually tried it.
Your rifle has fought against itself and won every time.
Your rifle won a pole vault event.
You paid $79.95.
You dig your ammo out of a farmer's field in Ukraine and it works just fine.
You can bayonet your foe on the other side of the river without leaving the comfort of your hole.
Service Life, 100 years.
You believe no real man would dare risk the ridicule of his friends by suggesting there is anything but 7.62x54r.
If your rifle breaks, you buy a new one.
You consider it a badge of honor when you cycle 5 rounds without the aid of a 2x4.
After a long day at the range you relax by visiting the chiropractor. THEN you watch "Enemy at the Gates."
Your rifle's finish is low grade shellac, cosmoline and Olga's toe nails.
Late at night, you sometimes have to fight the urge to dig a fighting trench in the yard to sleep in.