4th Lee carbide die drops LRN bullet low

[vtjozef]

In 45 ACP I'm using a 4-die Lee carbide die set on a Lee Turret press.  This press worked extremely well for thousands of 9mm reloads for the C9 and 600 plus for the Hi Point 45.  Every once in a while, however, a couple of 45 ACP rounds will come out of the 4th die with the bullet pushed too far into the case - less than the table minimum.  I have the sizing die set for 1.230 inches and it appears that the 4th die sometimes will further push it down to 1.170 - 1.190 which is unsafe.  These NG short rounds happen when there is no physical resistance in the die, that is, they are not apparently being touching by final resizing and may not be crimping.  All the brass was prepared and measured.  The first die is set for minimum mouth opening so the opening at the top is tight - not too big.  Anyone, have any ideas why this happens?  His has happened perhaps a dozen times in 600 or so rounds.

[Silicon Wolverine]

take the die apart and lube the pintle in teh center of it.  it may be hanging up once in a while.  alos it may have a burr or other debris in it.

SW

[vtjozef]

Thanks.  It has been lightly lubed after cleaning some debris out.  Will give it the test after :producing" more brass,

[PrimalSeal]

Another thing to consider: If you have a micrometer, measure those bullets and make sure they're not undersized. If they measure out less than .450 they are too small and unless you put one hellatious crimp on them to hold them in place after seating, they'll basically fall down into the case everytime.

[vtjozef]

With the help of posters here I have resolved the problem.  I was feeding the (Missouri) bullets with the case opening too small and shaving lead.  That produced debris that settled into the 4th die with it pushing down with the debris in-between.  I've cranked out 300 rounds at O.A.L 1.230 without a problem.  And, yes, I use a micrometer to measure each and every single reloaded round making sure none of them are too small (under 1.200) or too far off from what I want.  Thanks much.

[Wildcat]

I am having the same problem with lee single stage press for 45 acp i am using three die sit and when i sit the death of the bullet i want 1.265 and. It will be that for two or three bullets then it will go down about to 1.250 or lower and some times it will be 1.270 can`t keep it right any help fixing this problem would be app

[Sakdog]

Wildcat: one thing to realize is that not every bullet is exactly the same are you using Lead bullets or FMJ or what? I usually only have problems with lead ones but sometimes the profile of the actual bullet changes slightly because of slight defects in the casting of the bullet so I have found that dependent on that some of the bullets will vary in COAL by a little bit. The other big one is just as mentioned before crud and junk building up in the seater die or in the factory crimp die and having that push the bullet a little deeper.

One thing to consider too is that in the load data it almost always has some sort of spec for COAL min and max. However its hard to get too carried away unless its a manufacturer specific bullet such as data that says "230 grain hornady XTP" but when you have something that says COAL for 230 grain Lead bullet should be between X.XXX and X.XXX then you run into the issue that there are probably 100s of different sized 230 grain lead bullets, What I mean is that some of the actual bullet heads can vary greatly in length depending on the bullet design. That length makes a difference how much of that bullet is going to be sticking inside the case taking up volume. Just use the COALs that are spec'd out with caution because the minimum coal for one profile of bullet may be different than the one for another profile of bullet in the same weight.

That being said if you feel that the ones with the shorter COAL pose a safety threat throw them away or you can use a bullet puller and pull it out just a smidge and call it good. clean those seater and factory crimp dies and make sure that they aren't moving on you and you will be alright. 

[vtjozef]

Out of 1,000 Missouri bullets reloaded I had 13 that seated too low and were found to be a bit on the small side.  I have found it important to look inside the dies after 300 - 500 reloads to clean and lubricate.  My tables show that 1.190 is the minimum length for 45ACP.  I try keeping all my reloads around 1.230 but I will not divulge, as per forum rules, the powder nor the grains.  I will say that it is on the lowest end of the powder stage, so I'm confident there will not be an issue but I will try the bullet puller to move the bullets out a bit.  Thanks for that tip.

[Wildcat]

Using lead rn from Missourri bullets 230 gr my bother ran into the same problem useing Berrys Palted bullets for his 45 230 gr. I got what to seat the bullet from a factory bullet and it was a jacket bullet.

[PrimalSeal]

I will try the bullet puller to move the bullets out a bit.  Thanks for that tip.

Just be very careful when you do this, as when using an impact bullet puller you're more likely to completely remove the bullet from the case and then you're forced to dump the powder and bullet out and start over. Of course, this doesn't damage the brass or the primer, so you'd still be good to go.

[vtjozef]

I will be careful.  Thanks. If the 4th die is ruled out as the cause, i.e., being clean - no debris, is there any other possible explanation other than the bullet being to small in diameter?