[crusty_CCT]

I'm not here to cry about jamming from a Pro Mag . I'm looking for more actually. I think I've pretty much got the issue nipped in the bud actually. I know, I know. What makes ME so friggin' special? Nothing except I refused to lose to a piece of pot metal with a spring inside of it, lol. I've tried about 11 of them in my 995TS and 4 other people's guns. All the magazines displayed the same symptoms in all 5 guns, (nose ups, nose downs and failure to activate LRHO). Now, I started with one, the guinea pig if you will, and systematically started trying modifications and then testing. First, I radiused that back of the follower, tested, same failures, next bent rear lips, tested, same results, next, used the dremel to remove some material from the middle to rear section of the surface of the follower that contacts the round, hoping to force the front of the round up more, tested, same failures. I then tweaked the spring a little in a manner which would, in theory, provide more pressure at the front of the follower, tested, same failures. Finally, I swapped a factory follower into the Pro Mag, tested, same failures minus the LRHO problem. The factory follower activated the LRHO just fine, but still doesn't remedy the feeding issues completely. So, at this point, as many of you can imagine and can sympathize with, I was ready to throw them all in the trash can. My last step was to take an unmolested mag, radius the follower and use a caliper to measure the factory mag feed lips and make the Pro Mag's match. I tried this on all 11 magazines in all 5 guns and ran a minimum of 10 magazines of ammo, fully loaded through each, not one single jam or FTF and with a bit of epoxy build up at the front of the follower to activate the LRHO, they all work like charms time after time after time after time. I also of course explored the possibility that ammo could have been playing a part in all of the hijinx, too. I've used steel jacket rounds as well as several brands of brass, including Win white boxes, too and have had perfect results. I have degree in mechanical engineering, (as I'm sure a bunch of boys on here do, too) and a buddy of mine works for a consulting firm that works with Pro Mag!!!!! He has since put me in touch with people at Pro Mag and their attitude towards the matter is that if I can get enough of these mags to operate like these 11 and all the people who own them to write formal testimonials to the adjustments working, Pro Mag is considering not only improving the quality of the materials used to make the mag body, but use heavier tolerances at the lips like Hi Point does on their mag lips AND adjust their tooling for the followers to allow it to match what we've done!!!!!! He also said that due to the OVERWHELMING requests, they're DEFINITELY hoping to have a trouble free drum mag available for the 995TS's by the end of the year. Pro Mag seems to also have the attitude that they're pretty sick of hearing about the problems and sending new mags out under warranty, lol. I asked, "then why in the hell don't you people listen and frickin' fix it?!!!!" The rep's response was "well, we can only afford to put so much effort into one magazine design for one gun because we make so many other products." Valid point I guess. He said that the reason for the change from the HIP-A1 to the A-3 in the first place was because of all the consistant feedback on fixes they received from guys like you and I.

So, I propose that all of you that have Pro Mag 15 rounders just sitting in drawers and collecting dust, (and I've read about a ton of you guys having them in drawers, lol), I'll pay the shipping both ways, you drop them in the mail to me to my house here in Houston, I'll fix them, test them, send them back to you, and you write the testimony, email it to me and when we get about 50 of them together, we send the whole lot to Pro Mag and let them run with it. I have a serious hook up on shipping through UPS, so no worries there. I also have access to a pile of ammo to facilitate this project.

Let me hear from you boys with any suggestions and thoughts about all of this. I know we're all about a reliable, properly functioning gun, BUT, we're all also all about not having to reload as much, too, lol. Also, if any of you are willing to get in touch with Pro Mag along with me on this, be my guest and I'll give you all the info I have. Look forward to hearing from you guys.

Mike

[Wheeljack]

If you could answer a couple of questions. You said you added some epoxy to the follows, were these A1 or A3 mags? What were the measurements of the front and rear lips that you used?
Thanks

[crusty_CCT]

Originally Posted by Wheeljack

If you could answer a couple of questions. You said you added some epoxy to the follows, were these A1 or A3 mags? What were the measurements of the front and rear lips that you used?
Thanks

Sure, happy to answer any questions I can. They were definitely A-3 mags. I had either a receipt of the packaging from all 11 to verify that. Also, you can tell by the radiused rear lips and the cutout for the LRHO on the newer ones versus the A-1's. I believe it was 0.345 for the distance between the front feed lips which I had to adjust all of them to. None of them were the same distance from being off however. Some were too wide originally and some were too narrow. I found that all of the rear lips were so close to being right that I figured I better not mess with them until I ruled out the front. So I never ended up adjusting the rears, they seemed to work fine on all 11. Any other questions, please feel free to ask and I'll get back to you ASAP. Also, I do have a lot of pictures since I know most of us are visual people, and I'll be posting those first thing tomorrow. I've seen some absolutely amazing pictures and diagrams on this forum and those are where I've gotten a lot of my intel.

[SteveC]

Just for the effort you've made I think you deserve the Hi-Point Hero award I just made up. One of those should also go to Joey and Sirshanksalot for their work.

[crusty_CCT]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Just for the effort you've made I think you deserve the Hi-Point Hero award I just made up. One of those should also go to Joey and Sirshanksalot for their work.

Well thanks, Steve, lol!! I don't need any awards though, lol. I've done all this cause I'm sure I'm not the only one here that's tired of banging my head against the wall over these Pro Mags. Just trying to help myself and everybody else out, too. Hopefully when I need something, one of the gurus running around on here will be able to help me. There sure seems to be some knowledgeable and helpful folks on here. It's the least I can do.

[mn_doggie]

Originally Posted by crusty_CCT

Sure, happy to answer any questions I can. They were definitely A-3 mags. I had either a receipt of the packaging from all 11 to verify that. Also, you can tell by the radiused rear lips and the cutout for the LRHO on the newer ones versus the A-1's. I believe it was 0.345 for the distance between the front feed lips which I had to adjust all of them to. None of them were the same distance from being off however. Some were too wide originally and some were too narrow. I found that all of the rear lips were so close to being right that I figured I better not mess with them until I ruled out the front. So I never ended up adjusting the rears, they seemed to work fine on all 11. Any other questions, please feel free to ask and I'll get back to you ASAP. Also, I do have a lot of pictures since I know most of us are visual people, and I'll be posting those first thing tomorrow. I've seen some absolutely amazing pictures and diagrams on this forum and those are where I've gotten a lot of my intel.

There are two versions of the A3 mag that Promag shipped. One version has a new follower that has the front lip built up to activate the LRHO in the TS models. I have two of the old version A3 mags with out the build up section (I've posted pictures here of both the follower and the packaging that clearly says A3.....See the sticky thread at the top of the Carbine section)

(I've been in engineering for 35 years. I can't imagine a company making a major change and not changing the model number like ProMag has done. IMHO, they have very shoddy revision control procedures in place and these guys are selling firearm related devices that may be used in life critical self defense situations.)

Your experiences with Promag are similar to mine. The maintained they didn't have a problem, yet shortly later, they modified the shape of the follower.

Perhaps they will be more willing to do something the more people complain. I see the sticky thead is just shy of 15,000 view. I have to believe that has impacted their sale of their marginal 15 rounder.

Don't hold your breath that Promag will really do anything other than verbally act interested and lead you on... This has been a multiyear saga with them. They've had plenty of opportunities to step up to the plate and fix things.

Why should any of us trust a company that wants a customer to pay on his own nickel to have 50 of their products modified to actualy work reliabily before they choose to do anything?

I appreciate the work you are doing Crusty. I have zero respect for Promag as a company. Their response to your willingness to troubleshoot/fix their problem simply confirms my opinion of them.

[crusty_CCT]

Originally Posted by mn_doggie

There are two versions of the A3 mag that Promag shipped. One version has a few follower that has the front lip built up to activate the LRHO in the TS models. I have two of the old version A3 mags (I've posted pictures here of both the follower and the packaging that clearly says A3.....See the sticky thread at the top of the Carbine section)

(I've been in engineering for 35 years. I can't imagine a company making a major change and not changing the model number like ProMag has done.)

You experiences with Promag are similar to mine. The maintained they didn't have a problem, yet shortly later, they modified the shape of the follower.

Perhaps they will be more willing to do something the more people complain. I see the sticky thead is just shy of 15,000 view. I have to believe that has impacted their sale of their marginal 15 rounder.

Don't hold your breath that Promag will really do anything other than verbally act interested and lead you on... This has been a multiyear saga with them. They've had plenty of opportunities to step up to the plate and fix things.

You're probably right. They'll probably just pat us on the back and say thanks for all the helpful input and then tell us to kick rocks. Hopefully with the absolute sky rocketing interest and sales of pistol caliber carbines, that if Pro Mag doesn't want to step up, maybe someone else will. If I could get us access to some crude manufacturing and a reliable 15-20rd mag could get made, it would be years before they could sit on a shelf longer than 5 minutes.

[crusty_CCT]

Originally Posted by mn_doggie

There are two versions of the A3 mag that Promag shipped. One version has a few follower that has the front lip built up to activate the LRHO in the TS models. I have two of the old version A3 mags (I've posted pictures here of both the follower and the packaging that clearly says A3.....See the sticky thread at the top of the Carbine section)

(I've been in engineering for 35 years. I can't imagine a company making a major change and not changing the model number like ProMag has done.)

You experiences with Promag are similar to mine. The maintained they didn't have a problem, yet shortly later, they modified the shape of the follower.

Perhaps they will be more willing to do something the more people complain. I see the sticky thead is just shy of 15,000 view. I have to believe that has impacted their sale of their marginal 15 rounder.

Don't hold your breath that Promag will really do anything other than verbally act interested and lead you on... This has been a multiyear saga with them. They've had plenty of opportunities to step up to the plate and fix things.

And I had no idea there were 2 versions of the same model number!!!! That's ridiculous! Are they retarded? Why the hell would a company do that? Isn't the whole point of making a change that's beneficial to put it out under a new name to let consumers know at a glance that it's the latest, updated version? Bollocks.

[mn_doggie]

Originally Posted by crusty_CCT

And I had no idea there were 2 versions of the same model number!!!! That's ridiculous! Are they retarded? Why the hell would a company do that? Isn't the whole point of making a change that's beneficial to put it out under a new name to let consumers know at a glance that it's the latest, updated version? Bollocks.

Here's my pic of my promag packaging. To see many pictures of my Promag A3 rev 1 follower look at the sticky thread.

Yup, pretty crappy revision control procedures at that company. If you can't do that right can a person expect them to really fix the problem?

PS I love the "Lfetime Warranty Quality Firearm Magazines " blurb. NOT.

[crusty_CCT]

Originally Posted by mn_doggie

Here's my pic of my promag packaging. To see many pictures of my Promag A3 rev 1 follower look at the sticky thread.

Yup, pretty crappy revision control procedures at that company. If you can't do that right can a person expect them to really fix the problem?

PS I love the "Lfetime Warranty Quality Firearm Magazines " blurb. NOT.

Clearly they should have hired you or I, lol. Hats off to you for 35 years of engineering, sir. Thanks for paving the way for youngins like myself. Although when I graduated from college in Jan '04 I immediately when to USAF OCS in Feb '04, I haven't really used my degree all that much, but I love my job, my branch, and my country. Oh, and my guns, lol.

RANGE UPDATE!!!!!!!

Just left the range after feeding 250 rounds through a brand new modded HIP-A3. Like butter, gentlemen. Not a single hiccup, FTF, FTE or even a whispered WTF. Tried and true through 2 full loads rapid fire back to back, too.