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Old 09-27-2012, 06:54 PM   #1
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Default .45 ACP for home defense....

...so I've done some reading and it seems that your standard 230gr 45 auto round does not gain much in terms of velocity or energy when fired from the longer barrel of a rifle versus your standard 5" 1911 for example. Something to do with limited powder and faster burns rates in your standard .45 ACP ammo I believe. Drag is increased with the greater bore contact area or something to that effect so velocity is decreased. I also have an article here in which lighter 45 acp grains are fired through a carbine and the 165 +p pretty much comes apart hitting the ballistics gel. The 185 gr has about 200ft/sec more velocity but comes apart a bit, retained weight is less and barely penetrates more. Here is the article:

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/6626/pistol-caliber-carbines/

So I ask, what is a good caliber ammo for home defense for a carbine, such as my 4595? For all my handguns, I use either Speer Gold Dot 124 +p or 147gr. I would not mind using Speer Gold Dot for my carbine as well. Right now, I have Winchester PDX1 230gr as it's relatively inexpensive and easy to get as it is plentiful at the nearby Walmart. Plus my 4595TS eats it like candy.

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Old 09-27-2012, 08:36 PM   #2
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I can tell you flat out if you hit someone with a 45 from this carbine it will put them down. The damage from a jacketed hollow point even at slightly reduced velocity will be immense and it will tear them apart from the inside out. My wife work at a hospital and has seen first hand what kind of damage a 45 JHP does when lodged in someones stomach. The trauma is just impressive.

Use what ever you want but the .45 JHP is a good round huge expansion and after hitting a person penetration is severely reduced making it safer for neighbors and other people in the house.

This might help explain it

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Old 09-27-2012, 08:43 PM   #3
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I use the Federal Hydrashock 230gr ammo in my pistols. I dont have the carbine in 45, so not sure how it works in it. It is kinda pricey but I like it. Another round I am considering is Federal's 230grn HST. I use it in 9mm in my pistols and carbine and it works well as far as feed and function, so I may give it a try in 45cal. Links to both HST and Hydrashock below. I had some links to ammo comparrisons between various manufacturers and bullet configurations and if I can find them, I will post them up as well.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/federal/50rds-45-auto-acp-federal-hydrashok-230-gr-jhp-ammo-p45hs1g

http://www.sgammo.com/product/federal/50-rd-box-45-auto-federal-hst-230gr-hp-hollow-point-le-ammo-p45hst2

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Old 09-27-2012, 08:49 PM   #4
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...so I've done some reading and it seems that your standard 230gr 45 auto round does not gain much in terms of velocity or energy when fired from the longer barrel of a rifle versus your standard 5" 1911 for example...
Your reading material seems to be flawed, velocity and energy increases with a carbine. That is the very reason the carbine was designed.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:59 PM   #5
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Here is the links for some of the testing results:

http://www.btfh.net/shoot/ballistics.html

http://shootingmessengers.blogspot.com/2006/05/wound-ballistic-workshop.html

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Old 09-27-2012, 09:10 PM   #6
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Your correct about the burn rates and shorter cases.Just read an article.The magnums(357,41 and 44) get better performance but rounds like the 9mm,45 and 40 don't but you do get better accuracy.

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Old 09-27-2012, 09:23 PM   #7
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Your reading material seems to be flawed, velocity and energy increases with a carbine. That is the very reason the carbine was designed.
Not with the heavier bullets, it does not or at least not by much. Here is ballistics by the inch:

http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html

A 230gr Fed Hyd JHP out of a pistol barrel, my assumption is 5" is: 414 ft/lbs and 900ft/sec vs a 16" barrel which was ~500ft/lbs and velocity anyhwere from 940 to 1032ft/sec. That obviously doesn't tell the whole story as expansion and penetration is key but from the article above, the smaller round seem to penetrate slightly more but expand less, makes sense perhaps with the higher velocity.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:28 PM   #8
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I've read up on the M1 Thompson and though a highly desired weapon in WWII for example, it had issues with penetration. Granted the barrel was generally 10-12" inches and ammo was not what it is today. I think the Thompson was able to put a lot of rounds on target at short range and thus was an effective close range weapon. Which of course is what I considred my 4595TS, a close range hd weapon, 50 yards or less. My guess is the benefits of a .45 carbine is not necessarily in the increased firepower but the ability to put rounds on target without much recoil. When I shoot 230gr ball, it's quiet as well, sounds like a .22 IMO. That is a benefit I think if it had to be used without ear protection in a self defense situation.

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Old 09-27-2012, 10:11 PM   #9
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"One of the more unusual classes of carbine is the pistol caliber carbine. These first appeared soon after metallic cartridges became common. These were developed as "companions" to the popular revolvers of the day, firing the same cartridge but allowing more velocity and accuracy than the revolver."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbine

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Old 09-27-2012, 11:26 PM   #10
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"One of the more unusual classes of carbine is the pistol caliber carbine. These first appeared soon after metallic cartridges became common. These were developed as "companions" to the popular revolvers of the day, firing the same cartridge but allowing more velocity and accuracy than the revolver."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbine
Very nice Wikipedia info though unlike what I posted, it mentions no ballistic information on the .45 ACP. From what I've posted, the 230gr gains little to no velocity out of a longer barrel due to what was mentioned. The lighter rounds do however, such as the 165 and 185gr but in the one specific test, the 165gr would fragment.

So, for those who actually want to offer their opinion or input based on something other than wikipedia, I'm all ears I do agree on the improved accuracy and lighter recoil.
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