[tRavis]

So I've heard whispers about how a 10mm round is so great, mainly on here, but I can't seem to find much about this caliber when browsing through the forum

So who uses 10mm ammo, and whys it so awesome?

[bomber101581]

I think Silicon Wolverine is the resident expert on 10mm.

[panamared1951]

The FBI bought into the 10mm a while back for its knock down power similar to the 45. The problem was it had a kick similar to the 45 as well. That caused some of the small framed agents problem and the 10 was soon replaced with the 40. So I was told anyway. Not having shot any I can't say first hand.

[Silicon Wolverine]

first some history. the FBI bought into the 10mm because its agents were outgunned by the "cocaine cowboys" of teh 80s. in trying to make a powerful round they far overshot teh mark (to our advantage). the 10mm was too large for small handed female agents to properly grip and fire, the first loads were far too hot and made for atrocious groups in teh hands of agents with far to little range time, and were hard on pistols. once tamed down to controllable levels, teh FBI realized the 10mm case was oversized for the purpose. throw smith and wesson into the mix and viola we get the 40 S&W. a good compromise of size, power and controlability.

now the 10mm round itself is as kick ass as you want it to be. my steel silhouette loads get a 155 gr XTP at 1525 FPS. i shoot upwards of 200 yards with a glock 20 against targets that weigh 85 lbs, and get relaible falls as long as i do my part. i load self defense rounds with 180 gr gold dots at 1200 FPS. they will penetrate anything ive put in front of them, including 3/4" thick "bullet resistant" lexan, and 4x4" wooden posts.

the off the shelf 10mm is very mild and compares mostly with 40 S&W loads. this is due to the original 10mm pistols (bren ten, colt delta elite, S&W 1076) not handling full power 10mm loads without significant damage. modern guns like the glock can handle loads rated at full SAAMI pressures of 37,500PSI (and over, ive had pressure tested loads that pushed 40,000 with no visible pressure signs) with no damage.

if you just want a gun to shoot, the 10mm isnt for you. its recoil is stiff and snappy, its large grip requiremnts dont agree with 90% of shooters and its EXPENSIVE to feed. off teh shelf ammo can top 40$ a box. if you want the absolute upper power limit of hi cap auto pistol then 10mm fits the (big) bill perfectly.

you can buy more powerful autos in bigger calibers, but none of them can approch the 10mms ability to be shot at radically high velocity and still maintin 15-17 round magazine capacity.

another sideline advantage to the 10mm is some guns (glock most notably) can be changed to a diffent caliber with no modifcations except barrel and sometimes magazine. for the glock 20 you can have any of the following calibers for a 85-100$ barrel: 40 S&W, 9x25mm dillon, 357 SIG, or 9x25mm super comp (need magazine as well). add 15$ and you can have a comp ported barrel in any of those calibers.

is the 10mm the be all end all of handguns? nope. but as a normal production gun its as close as we've come so far.

SW

[SecondAmendment]

Hey I have some 10mm questions so I thought that I would put them here for space conservation.

1st. I like to buy American when ever I can, I could only find a 15 round capacity mag for the Glock 20, all of the others were lower and the Colt Delta had an 8 round mag IIRC and the S&W was a revolver so I would assume 6 or 5 on that. Does anyone know of an American manufacturer with higher than 8 rounds? Something like 17 would be awesome but even just 15 or 14 would be great too. If not then I will put the Colt Delta Elite on my "wish list" along with the Glock 20 as a back up if the price and availability are just a huge difference.

2nd. The Glock 20 and to a somewhat lesser extent the 29, seem to be very popular, whereas the other companies that make 10mm do not seem to have a huge following for their 10mms. Any thoughts/speculations/facts as to why this may be?

3rd. I know next to nothing about reloading my old brass, I am sure there are many U-tube vids on this, was just wondering if the 10mm versions are hard to find/extra expensive.

4th. The one I fired was a Glock 20 and I have NO IDEA what rounds, the recoil didn't seem to awful, was just wondering if there is a big difference with the different rounds as SW was saying that most rounds are not "Full Power"

What is the best thing about 10mm in your opinion? How would you compare it to a .45 and a .40? I have seen people say that it has more stopping power than a .45 and others say that it is just a little better stopping power than the .40 but with more recoil and still others that say that it has the best stopping power to Velocity/penetration ratio. I would imagine that this would largely depend on the round being "full power" or not. I have shot my friend's .45 more than any other gun, I would like a comparison between that and the 10mm, I only got to shoot like 5 rounds so I can hardly even say that I have fired on really :'(

[Silicon Wolverine]

Hey I have some 10mm questions so I thought that I would put them here for space conservation.

1st. I like to buy American when ever I can, I could only find a 15 round capacity mag for the Glock 20, all of the others were lower and the Colt Delta had an 8 round mag IIRC and the S&W was a revolver so I would assume 6 or 5 on that. Does anyone know of an American manufacturer with higher than 8 rounds? Something like 17 would be awesome but even just 15 or 14 would be great too. If not then I will put the Colt Delta Elite on my "wish list" along with the Glock 20 as a back up if the price and availability are just a huge difference.

2nd. The Glock 20 and to a somewhat lesser extent the 29, seem to be very popular, whereas the other companies that make 10mm do not seem to have a huge following for their 10mms. Any thoughts/speculations/facts as to why this may be?

3rd. I know next to nothing about reloading my old brass, I am sure there are many U-tube vids on this, was just wondering if the 10mm versions are hard to find/extra expensive.

4th. The one I fired was a Glock 20 and I have NO IDEA what rounds, the recoil didn't seem to awful, was just wondering if there is a big difference with the different rounds as SW was saying that most rounds are not "Full Power"

What is the best thing about 10mm in your opinion? How would you compare it to a .45 and a .40? I have seen people say that it has more stopping power than a .45 and others say that it is just a little better stopping power than the .40 but with more recoil and still others that say that it has the best stopping power to Velocity/penetration ratio. I would imagine that this would largely depend on the round being "full power" or not. I have shot my friend's .45 more than any other gun, I would like a comparison between that and the 10mm, I only got to shoot like 5 rounds so I can hardly even say that I have fired on really :'(

1. glock mags can be increased to 17 rounds with a +2 mag baseplate and a wolff mag spring. there are no american made hi cap 10mm guns except for teh new fortis bren ten repro, but theres a waiting list for those.

2. one reason. the glock is at least half as cheap if not more than its competitors. a new glock 20 or 29 can be had for 600$ or less. the cheapest delta elite ive seen in the last 5 years was 1400$, smiths and CZs usually bring at least a grand. the glock is also more durable than its peers.

3. reloading 10mm is no differnet than 40 S&W, in fact they share the same dies. 10mm uses large pistol pirimers and 40 uses small. other than that and powder charge they are teh same.

4. low powered 10mm ammo is everywhere. this is because of liability problems with older guns. if you shoot full power rounds in an original bren ten it will last about three mags and peen the slide rails so bad it will lock the action up. you were likely shooting ammo that was no more powerful than 40 S&W or less. my plinking loads for my G20 recoil less than a 9mm does.

comparisons? well that depends on ammo. with a full power load the 10mm will out perform both 45 and 40 by a large margin. if you use lb/ft of energy as your marker, at teh muzzle, my 10mm steel loads are hotter than 5.56mm and 41 magnums. with downloaded ammo they are not even close. the 10mm gives you the ability to cover a much wider range of velocites and bullet weights than either the 40 or 45.

the 10mm is a caliber for serious shootists. its not something for the casual plinker, or someone who doesnt reload. if thats you, buy a 40 S&W, it would be a far cheaper choice in both ammo and cost of gun.

if you reload, and want a serious high power, hi capacity handgun that can be pushed the limits of what can be done, then the 10mm might be for you.

SW

[SecondAmendment]

Thanks SW, that was Great info. I think I will begin to save up and see if I can maybe fire a friends .40 and compare that to my 9mm and my other friends .45 and then go from there, I will have some time B4 I get enough money to buy any thing that's not a Hi-Point. Might just buy a .40 Hi-Point. I did see that any NON-Glock 10mm was very pricey yes. I will just have to go to the gun show in a month and see what I can see

[Silicon Wolverine]

Thanks SW, that was Great info. I think I will begin to save up and see if I can maybe fire a friends .40 and compare that to my 9mm and my other friends .45 and then go from there, I will have some time B4 I get enough money to buy any thing that's not a Hi-Point. Might just buy a .40 Hi-Point. I did see that any NON-Glock 10mm was very pricey yes. I will just have to go to the gun show in a month and see what I can see

the 40 is a good compromise of size, power and controlability. thats why hundreds of police depts use it. if its a good all around gun you want the 40 will do teh job.

SW

[nclpta]

only leo and military should be able to have 10mm.. :cantlook:

[Silicon Wolverine]

SW