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Old 02-19-2013, 09:30 PM   #21
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One of the attorneys here has two of these in his arsenal. This guy is a global hunter (literally) and really knows firearms and ballistics of rounds. Both of his are loaded exclusively with the .410 self defense rounds.

We have talked about it a few times. His reasoning for using the .410 SD round is that in a SHTF scenario your increased adrenaline and breathing will make it harder to focus your aim. The spreading of the .410 shell will increase the chance of causing damage to the attacker, even if your aim is off a bit. He's willing to trade some ft lbs of energy for a better chance at hitting the target while under stress.

I watched him test the standard .410 shells in his. He had a 2x3 target at I think 7 yards. The target was basically peppered from one corner to the other. I've seen the videos and read the reports online. The penetration of the standard .410 sucked out of the Taurus. But, from what I saw, it would be like getting attacked by an angry pack of bees. I wouldn't want to stand around for very long with them hitting me. I wouldn't want to get hit with the slugs from the .410 SD rounds either.

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Old 02-19-2013, 09:59 PM   #22
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I think the concept of the Judge is cool, but I've seen a lot of bad reviews on them. My friend has a circuit judge and I agree, I would not want to be on the other end of it. In my opinion it's built better and feels more solid than the Taurus. Not knocking any Taurus fans; I'd take a Judge for the right price just to say I have one. I'd much rather have a Mossberg 500 chainsaw. That sum***** would erase a person's head without having to be 10 feet away from them....

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Old 02-19-2013, 10:07 PM   #23
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The spreading of the .410 shell will increase the chance of causing damage to the attacker, even if your aim is off a bit. He's willing to trade some ft lbs of energy for a better chance at hitting the target while under stress.
That may be a good reason...but if the guy then says, "hey...that sucked, and now I'm pissed", and keeps coming, I am really going to be wishing I had a little more of that mythical stopping power.

But then, the SD rounds with the buckshot and/or disks is probably going to do a little more serious damage than the "swarm of bees" the bird shot rounds would pump out.

I DO agree, there is a trade off, I am just not sure I want to trade in that direction. But that's just this guy's opinion, that and a dollar will buy a McDouble.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:43 AM   #24
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Swarm of bees? That's a new one to me lol. How would you compare that to a 22lr? More devistating or less? I have the pdx1 combo box and now I'm thinking of picking up some 000 buck thanks to all the input.

2 things I'm still debating on are a 5 pack of .410 to 22 lr adapters for cheap plinking and shtf, and 45 acp moon clips for shtf. I've seen videos of people using them in the judge with no modification, but there's only 4 videos on all of YouTube and none are the public defender poly. Any input from the resident experts?

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Old 02-20-2013, 01:34 PM   #25
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Swarm of bees? That's a new one to me lol. How would you compare that to a 22lr? More devistating or less? I have the pdx1 combo box and now I'm thinking of picking up some 000 buck thanks to all the input.

2 things I'm still debating on are a 5 pack of .410 to 22 lr adapters for cheap plinking and shtf, and 45 acp moon clips for shtf. I've seen videos of people using them in the judge with no modification, but there's only 4 videos on all of YouTube and none are the public defender poly. Any input from the resident experts?
I personally believe the "will it work question" always boils down to the application of the weapon.

IMHO, the Taurus Public Defender and weapons like it are a very close range weapon when using the .410 shells. The standard .410 shot went through paper at 21 ft, but once you get clothing and jackets involved I don't know how effective it would be unless delivered directly to the face and neck. If you are in close range and in danger, a face shot may not be a bad idea. The .410 SD rounds with the slugs in them may be a different story. I've watched ballistics tests of the lowly .380 JHP get through four layers of denim and 10 to 12 inches of ballistics gel at only 200 ft lbs. But, you're talking about a shot that was taken a couple of feet away from the block.

If you have a car jacker with his head inside your car window, the .410 SD shell would probably be a good option. If I was taking fire from 20 or 30 ft away, I'd personally want something else.

If it were me, I'd load two of the .410 SD rounds followed by some .45. If the first two shots from the SD rounds don't put them down or make them find another place to be, you have something with a little more punch and range backing it up. But, as ajole said, my opinion and a $1.00 will get you a McDouble.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:39 PM   #26
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Many years ago I carried a 22/410 when in the woods all the time. It was used for everything that flew, crawled, or walked. Shot quite a few deer with .410 slugs and saw the results 1st hand when cleaning and breaking them down. Never had one drop in their tracks. None were shot past 40yrds. Most were 15 - 30yrds. They flatten out on heavy bone or just pass through. They act no different than a round lead ball. Round lead balls have killed everything that walks the planet and do work, if I have other choices, I'll take 'em everytime.
There is no transfer of energy unless it hits heavy bone.

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Old 02-21-2013, 10:38 PM   #27
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I own two Taurus handguns, both of them TCPs and they work great. That said, I just don't think that the quality of the Judge line merits the price that they command.

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Old 02-24-2013, 11:29 PM   #28
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Just watched hickock45's video on the subject and it seems like the .410 federal handgun rounds are the best on the market for the judge.

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