Can we or can't we us the USPS?

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by Handlebar, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. Handlebar

    Handlebar Guest

    I was at the Post Office today and it was clearly posted that no firearms are allowed in the building. However, on the ATF website in the FAQ section they clearly state that you (a non-FFL) can ship using USPS service if you are sending a long gun (rifle/shotgun) to a member of the same state or an FFL that is out of state.

    Now each time I send a package, I get asked this question: Is there anything in the package that is liquid, explosive, dangerous or breakable? I answer no all the time because I don't ship that kind of material. But what do I say the next time I (if of course the time arises) send my 995 in for warranty work? If I say it is a gun, do I get in trouble/arrested? Should I have a copy of the ATF regs with me? Aren't the sign and the ATF regs contradictory to each other? USPS will be cheaper to use, but I don't want to become a 'criminal' for a few dollars. Help me out here you legal eagles-what would you do?
    Handlebar
     
  2. pills

    pills Guest

    I used the USPS to send a gun the other day to a ffl. I had to demonstrate that it wasnt loaded but other than that it went fine.
     

  3. Handlebar

    Handlebar Guest

    How did you show it was not loaded? Was the box sealed yet?
     
  4. pills

    pills Guest

    I opened the breach. No it was not sealed.
     
  5. Kagern

    Kagern Guest

    From what I've read, and been told by postal employees (including the local Postmaster)...

    A non-FFL holder can only ship a gun to the _original_ MFG for repairs. MFG can return it to the same non-FFL only.

    An FFL can ship to another FFL, or someone on a list of 'approved' persons (most military and police), but they must file an affidavit with the postmaster with info on who they are sending it to, and present a letter from said entity which states they can legally accept it.

    Under NO circumstances can you mark the package in a way that lets people know there is a firearm inside. They even made me black out the 'Firearms' in the Hi-Point Firearms mailing address.

    It must be disassembled, and there can be NO ammunition in the package.

    When I sent my JHP back, I brought it inside the original box, bought a priority mail box, stuck it in and addressed it. When they asked the haz/liq/etc, I told the lady it was a disassembled firearm for repair. At that point, she made me black out the word 'Firearms' in the address, and told me I had to get signature required service on the package. Done. No real fuss.
     
  6. +1 on on what Kagern said.

    In addition, you (pills) must have unusually intelligent postal workers where you live: they're all mindlessly obstructive bureaucrats here. :cry:

    I don't think that I could successfully follow the rules here (long guns only, unlabeled and disassembled) much less ship as much as a retractor spring.
     
  7. GlockMan

    GlockMan Well-Known Member

    951
    0
    I use the USPS myself when needed without problem.
     
  8. pills

    pills Guest

    I had to educate the local postmaster.

    http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.htm


    43 Firearms
    431 Definitions
    431.1 Firearm
    A firearm is defined as any device (including a starter gun) that is designed, or may readily be converted, to expel a projectile by an explosion, a spring, or other mechanical action, or by air or gas pressure with sufficient force to be used as a weapon.
    431.2 Handgun
    Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (for example, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles) are defined as handguns. The following definitions apply:
    a. Pistol or Revolver. A pistol or revolver is a handgun designed to be fired by the use of a single hand.
    b. Short-Barreled Rifle. A rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches long is defined as a short-barreled rifle. This includes any weapon made from a rifle (by alteration or modification) resulting in an overall length of less than 26 inches.
    c. Short-Barreled Shotgun. A shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches long is defined as a short-barreled shotgun. This includes any weapon made from a shotgun (by alteration or modification) resulting in an overall length of less than 26 inches.
    431.3 Antique Firearm
    An antique firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) is any firearm manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica of such a firearm, that meets either of the following conditions:
    a. It is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
    b. It uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, which is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available through ordinary commercial trade channels.
    431.4 Rifles and Shotguns
    A rifle is a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 16 inches or more in length. A shotgun has a barrel of 18 inches or more in length. Rifles and shotguns have an overall length of 26 inches or greater and cannot be capable of being concealed on a person.

    431.5 Licensed Manufacturer/Licensed Dealer
    A manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer in firearms is one duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), U.S. Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968.
    432 Mailability
    432.1 General
    The following conditions apply:
    a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable in the domestic mail except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0.
    b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0 or C024.2.0.
    c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.
    d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.
    432.2 PS Form 1508
    PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, must be completed by each firearm manufacturer or dealer who deposits firearms for mailing. The form must be filed with the postmaster of the post office of mailing.
    Exhibit 432.1
    Mailability Requirements for Firearms
    Handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer or dealer, an authorized federal agent, or an authorized state, territory, or district agent ONLY when addressed to one of the following addressee categories for use in official duties:
    Addressee Affidavit Requirements
    a. Officer of Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, or organized reserve corps.
    b. Officer of National Guard or militia of a state, district, or territory.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by commanding officer.
    c. Officer of the federal government or a state, district, or territory whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
    d. USPS employees specifically authorized by the chief postal inspector.
    e. Officer or employee of a U.S. enforcement agency.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by head of agency employing the addressee.
    f. Watchman engaged in guarding federal, state, district, or territory property.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by chief clerk of department, bureau, or branch of government agency employing the addressee.
    g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of an agency employing officers and personnel included in c, d, or e above.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the head of agency stating the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee cited in c, d, or e of the opposite column.
    Unloaded Handgun
    Mailer must be licensed manufacturer or dealer mailing to another licensed manufacturer or dealer. Addressee is FBI (or it's director) or scientific lab or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers, or state, district, or territory officers authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment. Manufacturers or dealers must complete PS form 1508, Statement by Shipper of firearms, and file with postmaster.
    Postmasters may forward an unsatisfactory mailer statement to their RCSC for a ruling.
    Unloaded Rifle or Shotgun
    Short-barrelled rifles or shotguns that can be concealed on a person are nonmailable.
    Mailer must comply with Gun Control Act of 1968 and with the state and local laws. USPS may require mailer to open parcel or give written certification that weapon is unloaded and not concealable. Registered mail service is recommended.
    Unloaded Antique Firearm
    Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are acceptable for mailing.
    432.3 Packaging and Marking
    No markings of any kind that indicate the nature of the contents may be placed on the outside wrapper or container of any mailpiece containing firearms. Mailable matter must be properly and securely packaged within the general packaging requirements in DMM C010.

    433 Mailer Responsibility
    Even though certain types of firearms are permitted to be mailed within the provisions of the postal law in 18 U.S.C. 1715, it is the mailer's responsibility to comply with all federal and state regulations and local ordinances affecting the movement of firearms.
    434 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
    Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Mailers should be referred to the nearest regional ATF office for further advice. See 435 and Exhibit 435.
    435 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF)
    Exhibit 435 lists the locations of the Department of the Treasury's regional ATF offices.
    Exhibit 435
     
  9. He showed an employee ID for any company/organization other than USPS -- they're the only ones with loaded arms on USPS property.

    Kaching! Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.
     
  10. Thayldt21

    Thayldt21 Senior Member

    1,792
    0
    No joke, just last friday I went to UPS, NOT USPS.

    To send an sks stock to elgaupo. I walk in with the wood and was ready to box it and ship it.

    Te Manager told me they could not send that because it was part of a firearm.

    I did not argue as I am on post. But it did anger me a lot. Main reason I walked off.