Micro-Red Dot ...Maybe Not

Discussion in 'Training' started by lklawson, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    http://proarmspodcast.com/101-on-the-dot/

    An actual Study. Sample size is about 120 shooters ranging from novice to expert, shooting with irons, different slide mounted micro-red dots, and a laser.

    Pro-Arms Podcast "Another visit with Karl Rehn, who presented a shorter version of his Red Dot Study at a recent MAG40 class held at his range in Texas. His Red Dot Study, looked at the differences in shooter performance comparing slide mounted Red Dot sights, Frame mounted laser sights and Iron Sights and it just might not be what you expect."

    The gist of it is that he doesn't hate 'em but he doesn't recommend them either. Too little gain for too much lost. He says that at the most common self defense ranges ("close") that irons are faster for all people tests. Most people had a hard time adjusting to the red dot and spent a lot of time "hunting" for the dot.

    Just as a side note, even novices had an 80% hit rate.

    Listen to it. It's interesting.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  2. Unless the dot is an instant on? Why? I do think I heard IDPA might be allowing them in the lower classes. Claiming they are coming factory ready on a bunch of guns now.
     

  3. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    They are on a few.

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  4. Dane

    Dane Supporting Member

    I have seen them on Sigs and Smiths recently.
     
  5. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

    IDK, with my eyesight the way it is these days, I shot my buddy Airplane Shane's Ruger SP101 with a tube RDS on it, it was great! Easy target acquisition and very accurate. I was even able to hit a swinging bowling pin at 15yds a few times :D

    I have a hard time finding the dot on an RDS that is not mounted, so that leads me to believe folks are not holding the pistol correctly, as it most definitely replicates the proper angles or it would not hit the target! Manual of Arms and Muscle Memory will come into play once they use it a bit. EVERYONE likes the RDS that I have asked.

    I am shooting left eye, righty these days. Right eye needs lasered again, got another cataract forming :(
     
  6. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Go ahead and listen to the podcast. He talks about some of the issues which you raise. It might help you make an informed decision which is right for you. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  7. KSR

    KSR Active Member

    32
    4
    For me I find the key to using an RMR is that I still primarily rely on the pistol sights, its those moments where it's hard to achieve a good sight picture that the RMR is useful.
     
  8. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    One of the important points that the presenter (who did the study) made was that with the micro-red dot sights, users would often have to rely on the irons to get the screen of the red dot in the proper location so that they could start hunting for the dot. At that point, you've already acquired the irons and switching from the irons to the dot actually slows you down.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  9. My favorite equipped 995TS still has the front sight on it. My brother kept trying to use the sight with the reflex sight. I automatically ignore it. :p Same thing on my AR platformed toys.
     
  10. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    The author of the study claims that there is a marked difference in use, particularly quick acquiring, between frame-mounted tube-style reflex sights on rifles and slide mounted screen-style reflex sights on pistols. According to him, the former works really well, the latter not so much. He speaks about it in the linked presentation.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  11. Is that Massad Ayoob talking?
     
  12. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    The presenter is not Ayoob. It may be Ayoob introducing the speaker. I don't recall but he is a fixture on this podcast.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk