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303 British

3K views 29 replies 11 participants last post by  GoesBang 
#1 ·
I've done a bit of research on this firearm. Everything from headspace to wandering zero.

Any other possible problems or issues that you can think of or have first hand knowledge?

It's an Enfield No. 4 conversion to a Jungle Carbine. Work was done by Golden State Arms. It's known as the Santa Fe "Jungle Carbine." The bluing on the barrel and receiver are both in very good/excellent condition as is all of the wood furniture. It doesn't appear to have been shot many times since the first owner bought it in the 1950's.
Publication Wood Air gun Book Font
 
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#3 ·
Bolt locks at the rear. This causes a lot of brass stretch. 2 or 3 full house loads and the brass is usually toast.
 
#5 ·
That can be fixed though. Replace the bolt head to the next size. I'll shoot a few and see if they blow primers or stretch brass.
 
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#4 ·
Any other possible problems or issues that you can think of or have first hand knowledge?

It's an Enfield No. 4 conversion to a Jungle Carbine. Work was done by Golden State Arms.
Bloke on the Range knows about these guns. He basically says the wandering group is not a "thing"...but some rifles just aren't that good, and will shoot crap groups. Could be stock pressure, could be whatever.



Gun Jesus says its the lightening cuts on the receivers. So a US conversion that DOESN'T have those cuts may be great.

 
#8 ·
A good read on reloading the 303 British and how to handle brass stretch by fire forming using the o-ring method.
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24699&page=4
Never saw much use for the "O" ring method of fire forming. Tried it once with my 6.5 Jap and it's oversized chamber. The brass didn't last any longer that the brass I had been using formed to fit the chamber without using the O ring.

Besides the reason to use the O ring is to prevent case head stretch on the first firing and force the shoulder to stretch forward to fit the shoulder against the chamber wall. Subsequent firings of the cartridge then headspace on the shoulder instead of the rim.

in @GoesBang case, his PPU brass might be new but the other 80 something cases are certainly once (or more) fired cases. So the case head has already stretched. Case head stretch is common in rear locking actions. They just don't lock up as tight as other actions. The trick is to size to your chamber, headspace off the shoulder instead of the rim, and neck size only. You can adjust your FL resizing dies to neck size, but for years I have been using the Lee Collet Dies.

Another option to increase case life is in conjunction with neck sizing only, modify your cases. I do this with my 22 Hornet and 30-30 Winchester by forming them to K-Hornet and 30-30 AI. Cases last more than twice as long.

A final thing to remember in rifles such as @GoesBang MK5 Jungle Carbine and my Arisaka it that the British and Japenese were not concerned about reloading, they were concerned about rifles that worked first time every time.
 
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#11 ·
There is a guy on GunBroker selling new nickel plated 303 British brass. The price isn’t too bad.
 
#12 ·
Read about how the Brits do it. They have no issues getting 6,7 or even 10 loads out of .303.
Make sure your headspace is right. That’s the first key. If you are loose, but still pass the go checks, and you can’t get a different bolt head, or if the chamber is loose, the o-ring trick will prevent that annular pressure ring on the first firing, which is what kills brass.
Then, second key...anneal the neck, and neck size only.
Third key...don’t load max loads. Load accurate loads in the middle of the node in the middle of the charge spread.
No need for the o-ring after that first time, as the brass will be formed to your chamber.

Those guys shoot for real. They are very accurate, and they can’t buy cheap new ammo either, so reloading matters.
 
#14 ·
I've done a bit of research on this firearm. Everything from headspace to wandering zero.

Any other possible problems or issues that you can think of or have first hand knowledge?

It's an Enfield No. 4 conversion to a Jungle Carbine. Work was done by Golden State Arms. It's known as the Santa Fe "Jungle Carbine." The bluing on the barrel and receiver are both in very good/excellent condition as is all of the wood furniture. It doesn't appear to have been shot many times since the first owner bought it in the 1950's.
View attachment 70563
Reload with Trail Boss or Black Powder and you'll get slower (subsonic) rounds that you can use (200 yards and less) that wont beat on you OR the rifle.
 
#15 ·
I'd stick with Trail Boss, since Holy Black tends to corrode brass AND is a major pain to clean from both cases and rifle. Used to use it in my 30-30 for reduced lead loads - still do sometimes - but TB is easier to deal with IMHO.
 
#16 ·
Trail boss is horribly inefficient in rifle cartridges. Let’s look at a couple of cartridges I load for to illustrate. I will list pressures for book minimum loads to book maximum. These are from my Hodgdon reloading manual.

30-30 Win with a 160 grain cast
Trailboss lists velocities from 997 FPS to 1195 FPS. Pressures run from 20,500 to 29,100 CUP

H4895 lists velocities from 1351 to 1562 FPS. Pressure runs from 15,200 to 23,100 CUP

45-70 Govt with a 405 grain cast

Trail Boss lists velocities from 971 to 1007 FPS. Pressures from 24,500 to 25,600 CUP

H4895 list velocities from 1424 to 1645 FPS. Pressure runs from 14,900 to 18,900 CUP


I like Trailboss very well in pistol cartridges, where it performs admirably. But in rifles? Nope, nada, no way. Why subject my Trapdoor Springfield to over 24,000 cup pressure when I get better performance with less pressure, less than 15,000 cup, and that’s comparing minimum loads to maximum loads of Trailboss.
 
#17 ·
Trail boss is horribly inefficient in rifle cartridges. Let's look at a couple of cartridges I load for to illustrate. I will list pressures for book minimum loads to book maximum. These are from my Hodgdon reloading manual.

30-30 Win with a 160 grain cast
Trailboss lists velocities from 997 FPS to 1195 FPS. Pressures run from 20,500 to 29,100 CUP

H4895 lists velocities from 1351 to 1562 FPS. Pressure runs from 15,200 to 23,100 CUP

45-70 Govt with a 405 grain cast

Trail Boss lists velocities from 971 to 1007 FPS. Pressures from 24,500 to 25,600 CUP

H4895 list velocities from 1424 to 1645 FPS. Pressure runs from 14,900 to 18,900 CUP

I like Trailboss very well in pistol cartridges, where it performs admirably. But in rifles? Nope, nada, no way. Why subject my Trapdoor Springfield to over 24,000 cup pressure when I get better performance with less pressure, less than 15,000 cup, and that's comparing minimum loads to maximum loads of Trailboss.
ALCON, I recommend Trail Boss Powder for older or rifles that tend to kick (IE The Enfield Jungle Carbine) and because it is easier on the rifle. If you have a '03 (that may or may not have been properly heat treated) and are concerned about frame stretch, Trail Boss is the powder for you.

Is it low powered, yes. But that's the point. Low pressure on the rifle and less kick on you.

It's perfectly fine to drop something or someone, especially in a bolt gun.
 
#23 ·
I'll keep a lookout for this. For some reason, even in good times, Double A powders are hard to find in my AO. Everyone has IMR and Hodgdon, the old Alliant (not sure who owns them now) are pretty common. Winchester can be found and Ramshot was getting popular, but very little Accurate.
 
#25 · (Edited)
true that you will not blow up a rifle with Trailboss unless you screw up, but why do I want to subject a rifle with a weak action, or one that uses thin brass, or both to more pressure than I have to? 5744 is a bulky powder as well, it will not fill some cases to the extent that trail boss will, but you will not be overcharging unless you are not paying attention. Most cases will overflow with a double charge.

Lest you say I have a vendetta against Trail Boss...I dont, I use a lot of it. The anal in me as far as reloading is concerned just will not allow me to use powders that I feel are not appropriate. For example, enough Trailboss to duplicate the velocity that the 45-55-405 load that my Trapdoor was designed for will likely put pieces of the rifle back into my eye. IMR3031, H4895, and AA5744 will safely do it with ease. With the benefit that I do not have to worry about my rifle, brass, or eye.
 
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#26 ·
Why do you hate Trailboss?

<ducking>

;)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
#27 ·
If I want to shot an old Brit bolt action rifle, I'd rebarrel it to something else. Like .308.

I had a jungle carbine when I was 14 years old. Sure glad that went down the road in less than a year. Now if the old man would have picked the 6.5 Greek, I'd still have it.
 
#28 ·
I purchased a few hundred pieces of used brass. A good percentage of them did not pass a basic visual inspection. Noticed many with signs of insipient case head separation. Those got culled quickly.

The good ones got tumbled yesterday and decapped shortly afterwards. Discovered 3 with Berdan. No injuries incurred to the depriming die. Adjusted the bullet seating and neck sizing dies for use in the Co-Ax.

The adventure continues.
 
#29 ·
I purchased a few hundred pieces of used brass. A good percentage of them did not pass a basic visual inspection. Noticed many with signs of insipient case head separation. Those got culled quickly.

The good ones got tumbled yesterday and decapped shortly afterwards. Discovered 3 with Berdan. No injuries incurred to the depriming die. Adjusted the bullet seating and neck sizing dies for use in the Co-Ax.

The adventure continues.
You can drill out the primer pocket on those. I did a few and tried them out. Worked good
 
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