15rds Of .45 Connected With Bad Guy

Discussion in 'General Hi-Point Discussion' started by TNTRAILERTRASH, Dec 4, 2014.


    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

  2. PapaMAS

    PapaMAS PapaMAS Member

    Wow! That's a serious story! On their point #2, "practice head shots": I think that's why Jeff Cooper popularized the "Mozambique Drill", i.e., "two to the chest, one to the head."

  3. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

    Old Topic, "Trash" :D

    Been there, done that!
  4. Martinus

    Martinus Member

    Im curious to know what loads he was actually firing, though. If 185 grn, or 200 grn, I can-maybe-see 14 hits with a .45...and that's still a stretch.. Ive heard of other police shootings using 200 grn loads not penetrating the BG as well as it should have...But have never heard of anyone, anywhere staying up and fighting after 4 hits of 230...
  5. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    I've just re-read the story and it's still amazing.
    It just boggles the mind.

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    I kind of doubt bullet weight really mattered. I think he was spray'n an pray'n until he gathered his wits. Not really working on shot placement at first.

    There is a video of a SC trooper who shot a BG 5 times with a .357. Cop was shot and killed, the BG is still in prison.
  7. Rerun

    Rerun Member

    And, the FBI during the 1950's, using the 'Inverted T' ~ two to the chest and one to the head.

    The headshot was not meant to kill but, incapacitate.

    Of course, if an assailant died after being shot in the head, they shouldn't have been in a shootout with the FBI.


    PS You guys should take some time to read up on D.A. 'Jelly' Bryce. In one instance, Officer Bryce was held at gunpoint. Bryce drew his revolver and shot the suspect BEFORE the suspect shot Bryce.
  8. The suspect was in the street on the other side of the car. “I could see him by looking under the chassis,” Gramins recalls. “I tried a couple of ricochet rounds that didn’t connect. Then I told myself, ‘Hey, I need to slow down and aim better.’ ”~Ya Think!~

    When the suspect bent down to peer under the car, Gramins carefully established a sight picture, and squeezed off three controlled bursts in rapid succession.

    Each round slammed into the suspect’s head — one through each side of his mouth and one through the top of his skull into his brain. At long last the would-be cop killer crumpled to the pavement.

    It is not about caliber, it is not about how many rounds you have or shoot. It is all about shot placement. When he finally realized that pray and spray was not working he settled down and ended the shoot out.

    There is a reason that 44 mag, and 357 mag stop with a lower round count. It is not the power of the round, but the mental image that you better get it done with six.

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    DA Jelly? Is that like strawberry?

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    There is a BIG deputy in Pontotoc Co. Oklahoma that carries a 9 shot .357 revolver.
  11. Rerun

    Rerun Member

    Thanks, SWAGA! I couldn't find the link!

    This is how LEO's USED to be!

  12. wganz

    wganz Supporting Member

    This guy just didn't want his ticket punched

    3 patrol officers with Glock 22 & Speer 180 grain Gold Dot
    3 patrol officers also used M4 with Hornady TAP 75 grain
    SWAT with M4 using Hornady TAP 55 grain

    Assailant: one .45 Auto

    Linkage to pdf of FBI presentation - {CAUTION GRAPHIC IMAGES IN PDF FILE}

  13. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    That was an awesome read...... Thanks Swags
  14. wganz

    wganz Supporting Member

    Wonder how many pistols have since been set up like that? :rolleyes:

    * S&W .44 Special Hand Ejector Third Model
  15. Asher1

    Asher1 Member

    Head shots on a paper target are a lot of fun... now add moving/bobbing/running and shooting back at you... You just took something that is fairly easy and made it 100,000 x's harder and more like impossible then just luck... If head shots are as easy as some would make you believe, why doesn't everyone shoot deer, and other game in the head instead of in the vitals (much larger area)??? That shouldn't be hard at all since those shots are usually much more controlled and with a rifle.

    6 in every organ that matters and the guy kept moving, how much more could you have done... At the end of the day this guy did exactly what he was trained to do, "go home alive"... If this cop would have hesitated / concentrated on making a couple good head shots he probably wouldn't be here today to tell his story...

    Get involved in your local club and shoot a IDPA match sometime, it is a quick wake up call on how bad of a shot you are under stress (been there done that) and then come back and talk about making just head shots...
  16. Head shots at 100 yards is a tad different than head shots from 10 feet. When young I used to shoot rabbits with a 1849 Colt pocket pistol when they were too close for a shotgun. If you can point a finger in someones face you can hit that face with little problem at close range.

    Shooting under stress is no different than shooting for recreation, it is a matter of mental training to keep composure under duress. That is the problem today with hi cap guns. Too many people do not train mentally, shoot a lot and hit nothing. Your greatest tool is your brain.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
  17. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    I love when the cycle comes around again. I'm almost certain that link to the Pennsylvania thing was in some thread about 4-5 years ago...may have been a different forum, though.:confused:

    Wherever it was...same conclusions were reached. Not everyone responds the same to pain, shock isn't always going to occur as fast as you think, and shot placement matters over everything else.;)

    The cop that carries more bullets...I think maybe 2 threads in the last 3 years?

    Still good info.:)
  18. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    We've covered it before once or twice.

    But it's still current

    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014