1940's Lee Enfield

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Zone' started by SWAGA, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    Ok...well after some procrastination and a tongue lashing from brother Ajole and his minion Cic...so without further ado.....

    I've successfully sniped a Lee Enfield from fellow forum member Dane.
    Met in person last Tuesday outside a gun store in Tampa.

    First impression was that it's the cleanest best condition Lee Enfield I've seen in the last 5 years.
    I mean apart from a couple of little dings on the stock it seems almost new.

    I'll see some expertise in finding out exactly what I have here as the info on the interwebz is pretty scattered and I'm too cheap to buy the book.

    Right side of the receiver, serial number, looks like the 7 is stamped over an 8 with a "C" slightly above it

    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466370.247803.jpg

    Stock 'grip' band
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466444.892574.jpg

    Aft stampings on the receiver, the BA is repeated on the trigger guard and the front barrel cap/bajonet mount
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466482.375967.jpg
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466574.097247.jpg
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466588.004526.jpg

    Serial number on barrel cap
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466621.800719.jpg

    Markings on and around the safety
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466638.275184.jpg

    Markings on the forward left side of the receiver. Three holes go all the way through.
    No idea what that is for.
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466753.726976.jpg

    Top hand guard has two holes drilled just forward of the receiver. They look old and I've seen them before on other Enfields online
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466817.697628.jpg

    Front side with adjustment wheel on the right. Marked up to 20 (2000 yards ?)
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466882.918571.jpg

    Barrel markings visible with the sight flipped up. Last letter is a "C"
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438466935.532109.jpg

    Markings on the sight itself with the blade flipped up
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467004.407774.jpg

    Markings on the stock, right hand sight
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467035.615799.jpg

    Magazine well has almost no wear marks
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467053.646938.jpg

    Magazine markings:

    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467173.691605.jpg
  2. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    Phone app only allows 15 pictures so here's the rest:

    Magazine markings

    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467252.051798.jpg
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467286.787844.jpg
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467304.140063.jpg

    Markings on the bolt:

    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467324.397735.jpg
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467350.741809.jpg
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467364.912173.jpg
    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438467390.596527.jpg

    So apart from a bolt that doesn't appear to match the other numbers aka 'non matching numbers' what do I have here?

    I've got ATF soaking in the barrel, I'm gonna go give it a scrub but it was pretty pristine to begin with. Sharp rifling. Once I'm done I'll do the bullet test and see how far a round will go into the end.

    The wood is bone dry, planning to rub some Old English Lemon Oil on it as per Kirk's

    Since I can't get a good pic of the whole gun here's a google pic of what it looks like overall:

    Except it's in much better shape lol :D

    > After some picture searching online I'm thinking it's a Lee Enfield SMLE # 1 Mark III* <
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015

  3. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    OK, the three overlapping holes are a gas vent in the event of a case rupture.
    It's not a DP or drill rifle....:eek:

  4. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    The bullet test

    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438472176.051985.jpg

    The barrel is good

  5. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    Some info...looks like your rifle has parts from 3 factories. That's normal, no reason to worry.

    "Up to 1941, the only factory making arms in Australia was Lithgow (mark "MA").

    In 1941, Bathurst Rifle Factory No 2 opened making parts for Lithgow (mark "BA").

    In early 1942, Orange Rifle Factory No 3 opened, initially making parts and barrels, and taking over rifle assembly from Lithgow later in 1942 (mark "OA").

    In June 1942, the Forbes and Wellington Feeder Factories (marks "FA" and "WA") started making small components to supply Orange.

    Slazenger started making wooden furniture for Lithgow in 1941, then Orange when assemblt transferred there (mark "SLAZ")."
  6. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    More info.

    "OA Orange Feeder and Assembly Factory, (Telegraphic code address)
    BA Bathurst Feeder and Assembly Factory ( telegraphic address)
    All the "Feeders" were in Direct Rail connection with Lithgow SAF ("MA").

    HVSC Marking: High Velocity (Mark VII ammunition) Small Cone (Throat) for Spitzer bullet.
    Previous Mark VI (215 roundnose Bullet) had a longer forcing cone.

    Many of Australia's pre-Lithgow Mark I rifles ( ALH etc) were still calibrated for Mark VI ammunition before and partly during WW I...by the time the Mark III Lithgows reached France in 1916, they were all upgraded or made new for Mark VII ammo.

    Seven Pointed Star with "A" inside: Inspector's marks as each part or Machining operation was finished and checked...the receiver has 10 such marks (numbered) under the bolt handle under the woodwork.

    Multi-digit number under Bolt handle on receiver: Factory assembly number before Action is finally serialled.

    "A" before serial number; Part of A series, 1918-1922. First series of production , 1913-1918, up to five digits, no letter. "A" 1918-1922; "B" 1922-1941; "C" 1941-42; "D" 1942-43; "E" 1943-44-45; "F" 1945, 1953.

    Crossed out number above "real Serial"...Old "Storeman's Number" of Military District System.

    "ACP" Commonwealth of Australia Proof...Firing Proof of Complete rifle.( Acceptance)

    Cursive "R" ( according to Skennerton's Book,) "Rust damaged Barrel (?)""

    So...there are some for you in that.
  7. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    So a potpourri is 'normal' but is the bolt usually matched with the receiver?
    As in are these 'war production' guns usually numbers matching?

    Not that it really matters 'cause:

  8. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    The two little holes in the handguard is where the clip that holds it on the barrel is fastened on.

    It's pretty common to get unmatched bolts, but they did match at issue, and should match after any refurb as well.

    The bolt heads are replaceable, meaning the matched bolt isn't that big a deal in terms of headspace, only to collectors.

    The size will be a number, at the rear of the bolt head, like this. Smaller is better, bigger means more wear.

  9. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438476001.465778.jpg

    No number

    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438476081.566018.jpg

    But there's one here

    ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1438476170.149599.jpg

    It's a "3"
  10. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    It's had some wear, but there are still a 4 and a 5 to go.:p

    No problem.:)
  11. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    I'm still curious about the 'overstamping' of the 7 over the 8 as the rest of the rifle ( except the bolt) are "7"

  12. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    Only one digit off...my bet is the guy that stamped serial numbers got his 8 stamp instead of his 7, noticed he was off, and then had to fix it.

    Can't see any way they'd change that one digit during a refurb, not with the other ones on the action all matching.
  13. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    So it's the long lost forever gone missing oops-my-bad-one-number-off highly collectible ;)
  14. Dane

    Dane Supporting Member

    I thought there was something unique about it!! :)
  15. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    I'm still struggling with the issue markings..as in where can I find them?
    I thought the HV on the stock but that stands for High Velocity, same as the barrel markings.

    Found this online, but can't find it on the rifle

    • ALH Australian Light Horse
    • A^F Australian Forces
    • AN Australian Navy
    • CMF Citizen Military Forces
    • D^D Defence Department pre WW1, then 1920s to 1960s
    • D over ^ Defence Department
    • D ^ (inside) Defence Department WW1 to 1920s (Australia Land Service)
    • ^ Government ownership & acceptance
    • LH Light Horse
    • RAAF Royal Australian Air Force
    • RAN Royal Australian Navy
    • 1MD 1st Military District (Northern Command, Queensland)
    • 2MD 2nd Military District (Eastern Command, New South Wales)
    • 3MD 3rd Military District (Southern Command, Victoria)
    • 4MD 4th Military District (Central Command, South Australia)
    • 5MD 5th Military District (Western Command, West Australia)
    • 6MD 6th Military District (Tasmania Command, Tasmania)
    • 7MD 7th Military District (Northern Territory Command)

    A more extensive list is here:

    Specially for Moonz...it has an "L" on the stock just in front of the magazine well...stands for "Long" which is 1/2 inch longer then normal.
    "S" is 1/2 shorter and Bantam is 1/2 shorter then "S" for when you have T-rex arms. :D
    Buttstock lengths: Bantam - 11 inches; Short 11 ½ inches; Regular 12 inches; Long 12 ½ inches
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015
  16. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    Sh!t SWAGA now I'm going to check mine
  17. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

  18. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    That sight will probably cost more than the gun.:D

    Ooh...I looked. Yep!

    I think the unit ID is supposed to be stamped on the Nock's form, but I'm not sure.
    Also, by '42, they may have simply shipped the guns out to supply channels, and not issued them directly.
  19. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    Swaga mines a 1918 and the stock is 12"
  20. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    Pic of marks

    Attached Files: