20/20 special "If I only had a gun"

Discussion in '2nd Amendment' started by Delmar, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. Delmar

    Delmar Member

    http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7312540http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7312687ABC's 20/20 did a feature a while back about those people who have found themselves in the presence of an armed gunman and thought "if I only had a gun"!
    The conclusion that they came to was that civilians can't be trusted to carry guns because they don't have proper training. Those videos are very powerful and they do point out why training, beyond target shooting is a needed. Having said that, those students were set up to fail, just a bit. The shooter was not just a run of the mill bad guy. He was the person who trains cops for these situations. It is also pretty obvious that the shooter knew there was an armed opponent in the room, and may have even known their location in the room. Also the room was set up so that the students were sort of "fish in a barrel" which could be the case in a real life situation, but not necessarily.

    ABC wants you to watch this, so that you decide not to carry. I would encourage all gun owners to watch these videos, as a wake up call to preparedness.
  2. Arizona says we're all allowed to carry!

    It is a good wake up call though. Lets you know that everyone needs more training, and takes away that "I'm a bad ass because I can shoot a gun" factor.

    It proves to me that just because we can carry and hit paper targets doesn't mean if the real thing comes along you will be ready. I think I will practice more..

  3. AlphaDawg

    AlphaDawg Member

    They've done this before. Your assessment of it sounds pretty accurate. But I agree with stryder. Training. NOt just assuming "you'll know what to do when the time comes". Kinda like buck fever. I don't remember the stats but it's been proven that your skills seriously deteriorate under high stress situations... like someone shooting at you. Hands shaking, heart pounding...If the fundamentals aren't muscle memory, your pretty much screwed

    Edited for CoC violation
  4. Delmar

    Delmar Member

    The point of this story is to convince you, you are better off unarmed. Not once as I watched the videos did I think I would rather not have a gun in this situation. It did have me thinking what would I do in this situation. First in my mind was gain cover! Then breath, think, listen and look for the right opportunity to act. Try to catch the guy reloading, that kind of thing.
  5. Delmar

    Delmar Member

    The ABC team told the students they were there to receive training, but they provided no training on getting out of the line of fire. Yes your skills deteriorate in a situation like that, but finding a way to take a few seconds to regain your composure can go a long way toward getting them back.
  6. Delmar, good show. I carried a S&W .357mag for over 5 years.
  7. I watched that a while back.

    The first thing I noticed is that they put the armed kid in the same chair each time. And the killer came in, popped the teacher and then went straight for the armed kid.

    Had it been real life that guy wouldn't know who and where the armed person was. And if there was two or more carriers one might die, but I imagine the other one would have a chance to stop him.
    smills41 likes this.
  8. I'm hoping that with Arizona's new "everybody can conceal" law that a whole lot more people start carrying. That way if something like that happens, like you said, duck and cover and let the gunman and the noobs duke it out, then stand up at the right time and finish him off right? I mean I don't want to say sacrifice anyone or anything like that, but I would rather be the guy shooting than being shot at.
  9. After 20+ years of LE I can tell you its not the same shooting paper as it is when they are shooting back
    DIRSUPop likes this.
  10. I hear ya. You can't exact train for them shooting back though, except maybe playing paintball or airsoft or something like that. Even then it's not the same.

  11. No you are correct.....its not a game
  12. Yeah, but I would think that would be the only closest thing by adding in the adrenaline and quick response times. I know the cops and military have pretend battles with paintball guns and the like.
  13. Delmar

    Delmar Member

    Yes, I'm sure that is true. It's also different for the bad guy if someone is shooting back.

    One of the videos showed a shootout in a store where the armed robber and the cashier were exchanging fire and nobody got hit at all. They showed this as an example of an unsuccessful attempt to protect the store. Funny thing is the bad guys left without the money nobody got shot. Seems to me that the defense of this store was very successful!
  14. Exactly, it was obviously setup to give every advantage to the shooter and guranteed the min reaction time for a student to return fire before he was shot. Also one would have to assume campus carry would provide many students with guns in the area, so even if the initial attack was not stopped immediately, others carrying who now know what is happening have much more time to prepare. If the shooter exits the classroom and enters the one next door, he just might have a little surprise pointed at him as he goes through the door.

    I also noticed most of the students had little or no prior experiences with guns. Someone who has been shooting since childhood would at least have enough familiarity with them that they might not spend so much time fumbling with the draw.
  15. ekim

    ekim Member

    I wouldn't call it a game as such, but it is a game of life and death. And if you really want to have much of a chance of coming out a winner, you have to be willing to play. You may be a experienced LEO, but from reports I've read an armed civilian has quite good outcomes, probably better than LEO's.

  16. Where the hell did that come from?
  17. mikana

    mikana Member

    Having been in a number of these types of training senarios, I can say with complete certainty, that training would have made almost no difference the way the senarios were set up. BG knew exactly who was armed, chose the time of the attack, and had no variables for himself. 20/20 advocates the "hide and die" meathod of self defense. The show was absolute BS!
  18. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Shame the video link is dead. Nevertheless, the whole, "you aren't 'trained'" meme is really really old.


    Peace favor your sword,
  19. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    You finally had the time did ya
  20. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I don't smoke so I have to do something with my "smoke breaks."

    Peace favor your sword,