Ok I'm stoked. The two old war horses work almost as advertised. And we finally got my 357 bear load through a chronograph, and it's bad ass. The 1899 Winny 94 is fully functional and deer ready right off the work bench. Here's a group at 35 yards. No never mind. I've learned my lesson trying to post pics from this phone after I've started text. Pic in following post. Ok so pretend you've seen the pics. That's without touching anything, and LOOK AT THAT REAR SIGHT! That's how bad the gun was everywhere! I put some Hornady reduced recoil through it first. It didn't blow up, so I put my favorite Federal 170 grain load through it. It loved them to. The old girl is fully functional and I feel in love it. Might sleep with... oh never mind. The Garand went bang first time every time. What a weapon. I don't think I've ever shot that much 30-06 at that close range. The Garand ruined our fun by blowing the targets apart and up and over the berm. Lol It works and it works good everybody loved my guns best. That's up against a Ruger AR and some neato AK in 5.56. There is something about old war horses people love. You can feel history. Then Rat Rod brought his chrono. Wish I had remembered he had it cause I'd have taken my Marlin 94 and put my best loads across it's ballistic sensors. But as luck would have it my carry load is that bear load. I figure you can't do much more damage than blowing a hole all the way through the SOB crunching what ever bones get in the way. Here is the seven shoot spread out of my 4" Taurus 627: 1408, 1408, 1406, 1409, 1401, 1409, 1405. Now how about that chit right there!? That's slinging a 180gr LRNFP and they are brutally accurate in all 4 guns. I was a bit surprised as with that bullet I would have been content with 1200 fps. That should put the carbine loads near enough to 1800 fps, they are a little hotter, and that will do the dirty deed on ol Mr. Black Bear. Recall these things went 21 inches into wet newspaper at 100 yards. They'll work and my loading technique appears to be sound.