[ajole]

So, in my search for more stuff to bolt on top of an AR, I have tried everything from 45 degree irons, to $20 red dots, to $150 red dots, to $200 ACSS 2.5x “not a red dot, but pretty much a red dot”, to a 3x Nikon with BDC, to various 2-7 or 3-9 or 4-16 or more by Vortex, BSA, Center Point, Nikon, and Bushnell. BDC reticles, target turrets, AO, illuminated, etc, etc…

But right now I am looking at the LPVO. I don’t have one yet, but I just ordered the base model from Primary Arms.

I LOVE the 3X Nikon P223, and I LOVE the Primary Arms Holographic 2.5X ACSS optic. Both can be used with both eyes open, which still is a learning curve for me, both are just easy to use, as in point and shoot, just hold over at ranges over 250 -300 yards, if you feel like trying it. They both have lines for that.

But the Nikon is no longer made, and the low end ACSS unit is $250. Though it does have etched reticles, meaning battery life isn’t such a big deal.

So…I also love the old German T post style reticle. And the $150 PA LPVO has this…

there are a bunch of teeny tiny sub tension, but no one has time for that crap. It’s supposedly a 2 MOA red dot, 1MOA gaps between the dot and the stadia, and the horizontal line is 9MOA from end to end of the short part in the middle, and they are 5 MOA thick.
Point is….it’s almost a T-Post, it has a red dot, it can easily be used both eyes open, and it will dial up to 4x, which some of us like…I still have a hard time of being too critical with too much zoom, and not being very good at finding my rhythm in my heartbeat to hit the right part of the figure 8 track….I’ll let Rach explain that part. I just like putting the post close enough and sending it. No second guessing, no trying to be “more perfect”.
What it boils down to is…I’m hoping this is the one, for the carbines. Enough zoom, enough speed, clear glass, good battery life.

Anyone running similar setups, and what are your conclusions? Do I need to spend more on a “better” scope? More magnification, even though it almost doubles the price to get 6X?
Or what?

 

[RACHGIER]

So, in my search for more stuff to bolt on top of an AR, I have tried everything from 45 degree irons, to $20 red dots, to $150 red dots, to $200 ACSS 2.5x “not a red dot, but pretty much a red dot”, to a 3x Nikon with BDC, to various 2-7 or 3-9 or 4-16 or more by Vortex, BSA, Center Point, Nikon, and Bushnell. BDC reticles, target turrets, AO, illuminated, etc, etc…

But right now I am looking at the LPVO. I don’t have one yet, but I just ordered the base model from Primary Arms.

I LOVE the 3X Nikon P223, and I LOVE the Primary Arms Holographic 2.5X ACSS optic. Both can be used with both eyes open, which still is a learning curve for me, both are just easy to use, as in point and shoot, just hold over at ranges over 250 -300 yards, if you feel like trying it. They both have lines for that.

But the Nikon is no longer made, and the low end ACSS unit is $250. Though it does have etched reticles, meaning battery life isn’t such a big deal.

So…I also love the old German T post style reticle. And the $150 PA LPVO has this…

there are a bunch of teeny tiny sub tension, but no one has time for that crap. It’s supposedly a 2 MOA red dot, 1MOA gaps between the dot and the stadia, and the horizontal line is 9MOA from end to end of the short part in the middle, and they are 5 MOA thick.
Point is….it’s almost a T-Post, it has a red dot, it can easily be used both eyes open, and it will dial up to 4x, which some of us like…I still have a hard time of being too critical with too much zoom, and not being very good at finding my rhythm in my heartbeat to hit the right part of the figure 8 track….I’ll let Rach explain that part. I just like putting the post close enough and sending it. No second guessing, no trying to be “more perfect”.
What it boils down to is…I’m hoping this is the one, for the carbines. Enough zoom, enough speed, clear glass, good battery life.

Anyone running similar setups, and what are your conclusions? Do I need to spend more on a “better” scope? More magnification, even though it almost doubles the price to get 6X?
Or what?

Nope. Not explaining that for the eleventy-billionth time.

FFP or SFP? If SFP what magnification are the marks true for and can you effectively 2-eye range find at that magnification?

I usually leave my scopes at their lowest magnification and use both eyes to scan. Close one to range and shoot though. Such a hard habit to break. I'll NEVER be able to range the SR with both eyes open. The Nitro needs to be at 20x for the marks to be true.

 

[ajole]

SFP, and I don’t know at what range, I haven’t got the thing yet to read the manual.

I agree, ranging is a “take my time, one eye” operation. Two eyes is for things that are under 300, no holdover, range doesn’t matter, just point and shoot.

 

[RACHGIER]

The manual for the PA14X says maximum magnification at 100y to set the zero and maximum magnification to range.

 

[Rerun]

I suffer from permanent tunnel vision - one eye shooting with scopes.
Never tried a red dot.

eldar

 

[ajole]

The manual for the PA14X says maximum magnification at 100y to set the zero and maximum magnification to range.

Thanks. I was thinking that would be the way it worked. But that would be logical, and things seem to never be logical anymore.🙄
Glad this one makes sense.

I suffer from permanent tunnel vision - one eye shooting with scopes.
Never tried a red dot.

eldar

It takes some practice. The trick, for me, was to stop thinking about it, and just point the gun where I was looking. Pretty soon, the dot just hangs there, right on target.

 

[Delbert]

For my HD AR15, I'm running a Bushnell (Tacticle 223/5.56 w/BDC) 1-4x24 SFP, that was designed for the AR's.

Bushnell also makes an illuminated model of same, but is a FFP and uses the horseshoe w/center dot reticle. These are excellent glass for low/medium cost scopes as they're from the upper Trophy lineup which is just under the Elite models. I've looked thru both models when our local Walmart sold them when they first came out and I chose the BDC model as I felt it would work for me better at the time. I don't believe Bushnell has these models anymore, but they can still be found on sites like Amazon.

As a backup I use at a 45* a HoloSun 403A shake-a-wake 2mm micro Red Dot that's good for 50K battery life. I've had it now for about 8yrs and it's been reliable and trustworthy. Just changed out the battery this year as a pre-caution, so the battery life definitely works. It is a discontinued model, but the newer models are just upgraded models where the battery is easier to change out and they also make a solar model lineup.

HoloSun is the maker of the Primary Arms models the last time I heard. Don't know if that's changed since I got my HoloSun from years ago.

 

[ajole]

So….Primary Arms ships FedEx. Which out here sucks. They use USPS to do a lot of their delivery, and two weeks ago, FedEx tracking says they turned things over to the USPS in Salt Lake.

But there’s no package here. FedEx has no info, and USPS says they got the information, but no package was delivered to them.

Primary Arms hasn’t replied to my email sent Saturday night.

So….I ordered another LPVO on Amazon. Cheaper, 1-5x24, FFP. Sniper VT is the name, so you know it’s gonna be great.
I figured I can play with FFP, and if it sucks, Amazon will get it back…and maybe by then, the PA scope will show up.

 

[ajole]

Update….it magically showed up, and it’s on a rifle. Can’t play with it until next week though, zero free time.
But I like how it works looking at things in the basement. Also like the reticle. No hash marks, clean and straight to the point.

 

[Visper]

Yeah I really really like my PA 2.5x32 CQB ACSS, it's like having a red dot with some magnification and hold overs. Believe it or not that is on my FAL. The FAL, even though some may not know, is not a tack driver. Lucky to get 2 MOA at 100. So the PA 2.5x32 is perfect for a battle rifle.

For most of my ARs, LPVO is all I have, I even have couple on my CETME C and L, all of them either 1-4x or 1-6x range some with BDC and some just mil dot. I like being able to use em as a true red dot both eyes open or turn up the magnification to reach out and touch someone. I still haven't mastered the 4x both eyes open, forget about the 6x ones lol. I have mostly SFP and one FFP. I guess if I had to pick something I don't like on the FFP is how the thickness changes on the reticle.

Yeah, I have a few red dot/holos too, some with 3X magnifiers. Still winds up being a low power optic however you look at it lol. The reticles are just better on the LPVO optics. Unless you are looking for super simple, aka red dot/magnifier combo. Have you thought about doing that? Like, lets say a good circle dot or T-dot with magnifier? That way you could get a true 1X flipping the magnifier to the side or have a 2 or 3 or 4x magnification (they get expensive after 3X).

As for my AKs I have, of course, Russian or Combloc optics. All in some kind of red dot form from chevron to T-dot to regular dot. They are built like tanks and add weight to an already heavy platform - but I like em lol.

I think I only have two high powered scopes. One on my L308 and one on my Marlin XS7 (Athlon and Bushnell respectively) and two mid power on my Marlin 336 and my Mosin, both of those are centerpoint.

Of course like many of you guys I have a few other types on some random firearms here and there and some that got replaced so they are back in their boxes...

 

[Visper]

I ordered another LPVO on Amazon. Cheaper, 1-5x24, FFP. Sniper VT is the name, so you know it’s gonna be great.
I figured I can play with FFP, and if it sucks, Amazon will get it back…and maybe by then, the PA scope will show up.

I actually saw that one too when I searched 1-4x last night lol. I did wind up getting the Tacticon 1-4x SFP. It is just a mil dot 1-4x but great reviews, I just ordered it for one of my new upcoming builds. My BIL loves his Tacticons, he has a red dot too, so kept telling me to try it. We shall see.

Also, wanted to look up what my reticle looked like on my 1-6x FFP, reticles vary but jsut wanted to show you an example of what I meant by thicker. (6x left duh and 1x right)

 

[ajole]

Yeah, I got the 1-5x yesterday, it’s on a rifle as well. I had the same lingering doubt about the reticle being too thick, but it starts pretty thin, much thinner than the PA, so it looks like it will be OK.

Both it and the PA have dots at the center. The “Sniper” is red, green or blue, but only 3 brightnesses on each color, and very little change to my eyes. I think the PA might adjust low enough to have night vision capability, first two clicks I don’t see any light.

I do have a magnifier and red dot…don’t like it. Just seems like too much crap on the rifle to get a 3x option.

 

[Visper]

Happy they all made it to your house.

I think the PA might adjust low enough to have night vision capability, first two clicks I don’t see any light.

Pretty sure it does, PA are legit sights though in my opinion.

I do have a magnifier and red dot…don’t like it. Just seems like too much crap on the rifle to get a 3x option.

Yeah they aren't for everyone, weight wise I really should see which is heavier. The dot/magnifier or an LPVO.

I have a feeling the combo will be more.

 

[undeRGRound]

Yeah I really really like my PA 2.5x32 CQB ACSS, it's like having a red dot with some magnification and hold overs. Believe it or not that is on my FAL. The FAL, even though some may not know, is not a tack driver. Lucky to get 2 MOA at 100. So the PA 2.5x32 is perfect for a battle rifle.

For most of my ARs, LPVO is all I have, I even have couple on my CETME C and L, all of them either 1-4x or 1-6x range some with BDC and some just mil dot. I like being able to use em as a true red dot both eyes open or turn up the magnification to reach out and touch someone. I still haven't mastered the 4x both eyes open, forget about the 6x ones lol. I have mostly SFP and one FFP. I guess if I had to pick something I don't like on the FFP is how the thickness changes on the reticle.

Yeah, I have a few red dot/holos too, some with 3X magnifiers. Still winds up being a low power optic however you look at it lol. The reticles are just better on the LPVO optics. Unless you are looking for super simple, aka red dot/magnifier combo. Have you thought about doing that? Like, lets say a good circle dot or T-dot with magnifier? That way you could get a true 1X flipping the magnifier to the side or have a 2 or 3 or 4x magnification (they get expensive after 3X).

As for my AKs I have, of course, Russian or Combloc optics. All in some kind of red dot form from chevron to T-dot to regular dot. They are built like tanks and add weight to an already heavy platform - but I like em lol.

I think I only have two high powered scopes. One on my L308 and one on my Marlin XS7 (Athlon and Bushnell respectively) and two mid power on my Marlin 336 and my Mosin, both of those are centerpoint.

Of course like many of you guys I have a few other types on some random firearms here and there and some that got replaced so they are back in their boxes...

Dayum, Dood!!

You just vaulted to Top 5 status, with all these friggin Battle Rifle setups... I know you have a fuk-ton of AKs (like every model every made!) and a proper number of AR15s but multiples in CETME and FAL,

 

[Visper]

Dayum, Dood!!

You just vaulted to Top 5 status, with all these friggin Battle Rifle setups... I know you have a fuk-ton of AKs (like every model every made!) and a proper number of AR15s but multiples in CETME and FAL,

Except a Valmet... some day, some day...

I started on battle rifles about a year before Biden got in, prices weren't horrible on the ammo so I stocked up a little and needed rifles to go with it!!! I know ass backwards lol.

But really I only have a L308, Cetme C and two FAL. So it's not a crazy amount. The Cetme L is 556. I still have more stuff that shoots x39 than 223/556 but 9mm is making a big time run to challenge that!!! Pretty sure if you count my pistols and carbines they prolly passed my 223/556.

I have been playing around with AR9's. They are so much fun to shoot, so much fun looking at a 9mm AK lol, still want to get that AP5 first though.

Also I have to admit the Tavor is really fun, the more I shoot it the more I like it... bullpup I know...

Gonna have to decide on an optic for that soon. It came with a red dot but will most likely get a PA for that one too.

Next project will be a lightweight 223/556. 14.5 barrel with pinned break most likely. Already have a billet skeletonized lower receiver.

Anyway, I am contributing to thread drift!!!

Back to LPVOs.

@ajole have you had a chance to play around with those optics? Curious on the PA LPVO.

 

[undeRGRound]

Except a Valmet... some day, some day...

I started on battle rifles about a year before Biden got in, prices weren't horrible on the ammo so I stocked up a little and needed rifles to go with it!!! I know ass backwards lol.

But really I only have a L308, Cetme C and two FAL. So it's not a crazy amount. The Cetme L is 556. I still have more stuff that shoots x39 than 223/556 but 9mm is making a big time run to challenge that!!! Pretty sure if you count my pistols and carbines they prolly passed my 223/556.

I have been playing around with AR9's. They are so much fun to shoot, so much fun looking at a 9mm AK lol, still want to get that AP5 first though.

Also I have to admit the Tavor is really fun, the more I shoot it the more I like it... bullpup I know...

Gonna have to decide on an optic for that soon. It came with a red dot but will most likely get a PA for that one too.

Next project will be a lightweight 223/556. 14.5 barrel with pinned break most likely. Already have a billet skeletonized lower receiver.

Anyway, I am contributing to thread drift!!!

Back to LPVOs.

@ajole have you had a chance to play around with those optics? Curious on the PA LPVO.

I guess I'm just being Jelly

If you followed Mole's Rules, you'd be weighed down with too much battle rifle ammo to move, my friend :rotfl:
That's why I don't have anything in x51 (yet) because Mole's Rules call for copious amounts of ammo for a main rifle caliber. What's the price of 10,000 rounds of .308 right now?

 

[ajole]

Except a Valmet... some day, some day...

I started on battle rifles about a year before Biden got in, prices weren't horrible on the ammo so I stocked up a little and needed rifles to go with it!!! I know ass backwards lol.

But really I only have a L308, Cetme C and two FAL. So it's not a crazy amount. The Cetme L is 556. I still have more stuff that shoots x39 than 223/556 but 9mm is making a big time run to challenge that!!! Pretty sure if you count my pistols and carbines they prolly passed my 223/556.

I have been playing around with AR9's. They are so much fun to shoot, so much fun looking at a 9mm AK lol, still want to get that AP5 first though.

Also I have to admit the Tavor is really fun, the more I shoot it the more I like it... bullpup I know...

Gonna have to decide on an optic for that soon. It came with a red dot but will most likely get a PA for that one too.

Next project will be a lightweight 223/556. 14.5 barrel with pinned break most likely. Already have a billet skeletonized lower receiver.

Anyway, I am contributing to thread drift!!!

Back to LPVOs.

@ajole have you had a chance to play around with those optics? Curious on the PA LPVO.

Not until next week, I’ve been in St.George with an Academic Decathlon team for a few days.

 

[ajole]

I guess I'm just being Jelly

If you followed Mole's Rules, you'd be weighed down with too much battle rifle ammo to move, my friend :rotfl:
That's why I don't have anything in x51 (yet) because Mole's Rules call for copious amounts of ammo for a main rifle caliber. What's the price of 10,000 rounds of .308 right now?

If you could shoot, you wouldn’t need so much ammo….🤣

 

[RACHGIER]

If you could shoot, you wouldn’t need so much ammo….🤣

But then he would have to invent something else to compulsively obsess about.

 

[Pistolkitty]

What's the price of 10,000 rounds of .308 right now?

At least you could get 308 right now. It's probably the 1 caliber I have seen consistently on the shelves everywhere I've been throughout this whole thing.

And of course I don't have anything in 308, lol.