4595; Doomed to Fail?

9816 Views 65 Replies 31 Participants Last post by Bigfoot, Dec 12, 2008

rileyz69

Discussion Starter · Aug 1, 2008

Why the 4595 will be a disappointment:

1) .45 ACP. A 200+ grain projectile traveling at sub-sonic speeds CAN'T be as accurate as a 9mm. We're talking about a round that's made for shots of 25yds or less, being fired from a long gun. If you're planning to take out watermelons at 200yds, you'll be sorely disappointed.

2) Supply. Bless their hearts, the folks at Beemiller can barely meet demand for the 995 and 4095. We'll be as aggravated as all those folks out there who want a Nintendo Wii "for the the kids" but can't find one to save their lives. This will lead the conspiracy theorists among us (and you know who you are) to think HP is deliberately keeping supply low to keep demand comparatively high.

3) Hype. We've been waiting and drooling and drooling and waiting for YEARS for this bad boy to come out. They told us it would be Spring '08, now Fall '08 or later. NOTHING could live up to the expectations for this. It's become the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant and the Philosopher's stone all rolled into one. It's the impossible dream; far better in the imagining than in reality. The day you actually buy one, it'll be like finally going out on a date with that beauty from English class you've been crushing on since freshman year: and then discovering she's only a mildly interesting person and not much of a kisser.

4) Ten round, single stack magazines. You know it'll happen.

1 - 20 of 66 Posts

Carpe_Jugulum

· #2 · Aug 1, 2008

Why the 4595 will be a disappointment:

4) Ten round, single stack magazines. You know it'll happen.

Can't speak to 1-3 but as for #4 the .45 storm is still selling at $600+ and from what I ve seen you can't get above an 8 round mag for it. That's why I'm willing to wait for the 4595 (though it IS getting on me nerves) 2 more rounds and $400+ less seems like a winner to me.

Carpe_Jugulum

· #3 · Aug 1, 2008

Well OK I was wrong when I said I couldn't speak to the other points.
#2 is VERY valid! But I would give good odds they are smart enough to start stockpiling them so they can flood the market right off so as not to hack off the rabid sales base.

AS for #3... if it's accurate at 75-100 yards I'l be happy. If I want a sniper rifle I'll drop the grand on a Drag (and lord how I want one of those!)

G

· #4 · Aug 1, 2008

I believe that there are a great number of people that will want this for a home defense weapon and for that it will fit the bill nicely.

G

· #5 · Aug 1, 2008

If you want a sniper rifle, there's always a sub-$100 mosin nagant awaiting.

SHOOTER Z

· #6 · Aug 1, 2008

Why the 4595 will be a disappointment:

1) .45 ACP. A 200+ grain projectile traveling at sub-sonic speeds CAN'T be as accurate as a 9mm. We're talking about a round that's made for shots of 25yds or less, being fired from a long gun. If you're planning to take out watermelons at 200yds, you'll be sorely disappointed.

2) Supply. Bless their hearts, the folks at Beemiller can barely meet demand for the 995 and 4095. We'll be as aggravated as all those folks out there who want a Nintendo Wii "for the the kids" but can't find one to save their lives. This will lead the conspiracy theorists among us (and you know who you are) to think HP is deliberately keeping supply low to keep demand comparatively high.

3) Hype. We've been waiting and drooling and drooling and waiting for YEARS for this bad boy to come out. They told us it would be Spring '08, now Fall '08 or later. NOTHING could live up to the expectations for this. It's become the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant and the Philosopher's stone all rolled into one. It's the impossible dream; far better in the imagining than in reality. The day you actually buy one, it'll be like finally going out on a date with that beauty from English class you've been crushing on since freshman year: and then discovering she's only a mildly interesting person and not much of a kisser.

4) Ten round, single stack magazines. You know it'll happen.

Gee does this mean when they come out I don't have to worry about YOU stampedeing over me to get one :think: With THIS kind of attitude why do you even bother with a Hi Point? Why not just forget it all together and get the More expensive brand to make you feel warm and fuzzy.

Oh and here's a gift

:wink: :lol:

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Thadius15

· #7 · Aug 1, 2008

It certainly is not doomed to fail with me I will be picking one up as soon as they are released. I think it will make a great hog hunting gun. Most of those shots are fairly close up.

Silicon Wolverine

· #8 · Aug 1, 2008

Why the 4595 will be a disappointment:

1) .45 ACP. A 200+ grain projectile traveling at sub-sonic speeds CAN'T be as accurate as a 9mm. We're talking about a round that's made for shots of 25yds or less, being fired from a long gun. If you're planning to take out watermelons at 200yds, you'll be sorely disappointed.

2) Supply. Bless their hearts, the folks at Beemiller can barely meet demand for the 995 and 4095. We'll be as aggravated as all those folks out there who want a Nintendo Wii "for the the kids" but can't find one to save their lives. This will lead the conspiracy theorists among us (and you know who you are) to think HP is deliberately keeping supply low to keep demand comparatively high.

3) Hype. We've been waiting and drooling and drooling and waiting for YEARS for this bad boy to come out. They told us it would be Spring '08, now Fall '08 or later. NOTHING could live up to the expectations for this. It's become the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant and the Philosopher's stone all rolled into one. It's the impossible dream; far better in the imagining than in reality. The day you actually buy one, it'll be like finally going out on a date with that beauty from English class you've been crushing on since freshman year: and then discovering she's only a mildly interesting person and not much of a kisser.

4) Ten round, single stack magazines. You know it'll happen.

Click to expand...

Gee does this mean when they come out I don't have to worry about YOU stampedeing over me to get one :think: With THIS kind of attitude why do you even bother with a Hi Point? Why not just forget it all together and get the More expensive brand to make you feel warm and fuzzy.

Oh and here's a gift

:wink: :lol:

its the newbie sour grapes again. Hes trying to justify spending a ton on a "better" gun, instead of having patience.

SW

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wolf_from_wv

· #9 · Aug 1, 2008

Your forgetting the mystical allure of the .45 ACP...

Ever hear of the really heavy, impractical "Tommy Gun"?

The power of the .45 ACP compels you...

HPHooked

· #10 · Aug 1, 2008

Why the 4595 will be a disappointment:

1) .45 ACP. A 200+ grain projectile traveling at sub-sonic speeds CAN'T be as accurate as a 9mm. We're talking about a round that's made for shots of 25yds or less, being fired from a long gun. If you're planning to take out watermelons at 200yds, you'll be sorely disappointed.

If your planning on taking out watermelons at 200 yards with a 9mm carbine, you don't know what you're supposed to be doing. All pistol caliber weapons are inherantly designed for short range [0 to 75 yards] engagement. That is what made the Thompson sub-machine gun such a coveted weapon from WWII to Viet Nam. The .45 cal bullet was very effective at ranges up to 100 yards from the longer barreled weapon.

Now, does this mean that the .45 ACP round won't make it out to 200 yards? Nope. It will make it and with plenty of lethality on the receiving end.

Is it a laser straight shot? Again, nope. You have to lob them in like an artillery shell.

Are the .45 rounds as suseptable to wind drift as the 9mm rounds? Nope as the heavier rounds are less effected by cross winds.

In summation, the .45 carbine will be a great short range self/point defense weapon. The .45 ACP is a proven combat round second to none in the world. Coming out of a 16+ in barrel will give it added velocity and potential lethality. Using 185 to 230 grain projectiles, it should prove well up to the task of personal defense even at longer ranges. JMHO - YMMV.
:wink:

:wink: 8) 8) 8)

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G

· #11 · Aug 1, 2008

It certainly is not doomed to fail with me I will be picking one up as soon as they are released. I think it will make a great hog hunting gun. Most of those shots are fairly close up.

+1

You took the words right out of my mouth with this one. There are also those who do hunt whitetail deer at bowhunting distances with a .45 acp such as 1911's and Glocks to name a few. I do not do this myself but have met a few that do. The 4595 will not be a disappointment to many, but will to some. :roll:

NDS

· #12 · Aug 1, 2008

Why the 4595 will be a disappointment:

1) .45 ACP. A 200+ grain projectile traveling at sub-sonic speeds CAN'T be as accurate as a 9mm. We're talking about a round that's made for shots of 25yds or less, being fired from a long gun. If you're planning to take out watermelons at 200yds, you'll be sorely disappointed.

2) Supply.
3) Hype.
4) Ten round, single stack magazines. You know it'll happen.

1) is my favorite. This is why there are no .45 match pistols and why 9mm has been the choice of military shooters for decades. After all, nobody uses any of those old 1911 pistols for shooting at targets. Here's an example of the reputation for uselessness at the range:
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=8656923

2--it's up to HP and MKS to know their market
3--have to wait and see
4--HP will probably choose to use existing HP pistol magazines, it only makes sense to help sell matching pistols. And, I believe members here have posted communication from people in the company multiple times that there will be no hi capacity firearms from HP--the company has the right to choose how to market their product.

rileyz69

Discussion Starter · #13 · Aug 1, 2008

Well OK I was wrong when I said I couldn't speak to the other points.
#2 is VERY valid! But I would give good odds they are smart enough to start stockpiling them so they can flood the market right off so as not to hack off the rabid sales base.

AS for #3... if it's accurate at 75-100 yards I'l be happy. If I want a sniper rifle I'll drop the grand on a Drag (and lord how I want one of those!)

Oooohh, Dragunov

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waltham41

· #14 · Aug 1, 2008

Why the 4595 will be a disappointment:

1) .45 ACP. A 200+ grain projectile traveling at sub-sonic speeds CAN'T be as accurate as a 9mm. We're talking about a round that's made for shots of 25yds or less, being fired from a long gun. If you're planning to take out watermelons at 200yds, you'll be sorely disappointed.

2) Supply. Bless their hearts, the folks at Beemiller can barely meet demand for the 995 and 4095. We'll be as aggravated as all those folks out there who want a Nintendo Wii "for the the kids" but can't find one to save their lives. This will lead the conspiracy theorists among us (and you know who you are) to think HP is deliberately keeping supply low to keep demand comparatively high.

3) Hype. We've been waiting and drooling and drooling and waiting for YEARS for this bad boy to come out. They told us it would be Spring '08, now Fall '08 or later. NOTHING could live up to the expectations for this. It's become the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant and the Philosopher's stone all rolled into one. It's the impossible dream; far better in the imagining than in reality. The day you actually buy one, it'll be like finally going out on a date with that beauty from English class you've been crushing on since freshman year: and then discovering she's only a mildly interesting person and not much of a kisser.

4) Ten round, single stack magazines. You know it'll happen.

Click to expand...

Gee does this mean when they come out I don't have to worry about YOU stampedeing over me to get one :think: With THIS kind of attitude why do you even bother with a Hi Point? Why not just forget it all together and get the More expensive brand to make you feel warm and fuzzy.

Oh and here's a gift

:wink: :lol:

Actually Shooter I tend to agree with the man. Why is he an anti hi pointer if he points out what may well be valid points?

It was a well written post, with no disrespectful remarks about the company we all love.

I love my hi points, but think along the same line as far as the 4595 goes.

I have a 4095 now and cant see where a 4595 will be much of a difference.

I had a Thompson clone in .45acp and other than the 30 rd stick mag, the 4095 is just as nice of a weapon IMO

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Tooguns

· #15 · Aug 1, 2008

I have a 995 and a 4095 and i still want a 4595.That is why I drove a 1984 Isuzu until The frame gave way. Not because I have to I want to.
All points taken.

waltham41

· #16 · Aug 1, 2008

Im not saying it wont be a nice weapon, just that the world will not collapse around us if it never happens.

They make 2 outstanding carbines already.

G

· #17 · Aug 2, 2008

I am waiting for the 45 to go with my HP 45 pistol.

G

· #18 · Aug 2, 2008

Why the 4595 will be a disappointment:

1) .45 ACP. A 200+ grain projectile traveling at sub-sonic speeds CAN'T be as accurate as a 9mm. We're talking about a round that's made for shots of 25yds or less, being fired from a long gun. If you're planning to take out watermelons at 200yds, you'll be sorely disappointed.

I can tell you have no time with the 45 acp. Hitting milk jugs at the 100 yard mark with the 1911 is no big deal. The 45 ACP will take out watermelons at 200 yards easy from a carbine. A 45 at those ranges can be very accurate. Much more so then the 9mm. The 9mm is no longer flat at those ranges.

G

· #19 · Aug 2, 2008

Not the best place to objectively assess the situation, being a hi point biased member base, but i'll just chime in about OP's point #3.
When the 4595 hits store shelves, most people seeing them will not be people who were waiting for it. It will just be another gun on the shelves available. It actually works out so that the only people affected by the hype are already dedicated hi pointers, which demographically would be the population least put off by it.

gtv

· #20 · Aug 2, 2008

Why the 4595 will be a disappointment:

If you're planning to take out watermelons at 200yds, you'll be sorely disappointed.

In my experience, watermelons are relatively slow-moving, and have little or no agility to speak of. Therefore, I think one would be safe in allowing the melon to close to within 100 or even 50 yards before engaging.

Now, cantaloupes on the other hand...

1 - 20 of 66 Posts

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