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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Considering trying the Fort Scott all copper, 40 gr., TUI bullets. I'd like to stick with the published powders (5, 7, True Blue). The published data lists Hornady V-MAX, Siera Hornet and SPT at 35 gr. to 45 gr.

I've done bullet substitution before but never with a cartridge as fiddly as the 5.7. Any recommendations/suggestions on which bullet/powder combo to start with when substituting the Fort Scott all copper 40 gr.? By bullet weight or by length?

Thanks!

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
No bites yet.

@greg_r any suggestions on substituting? In your experience should I start the substitution based on the projectile weight or based on projectile length? From what I recall, case volume, and therefore seating depth, which implies bullet length, makes a greater impact on pressure than weight. Is that your experience?

@GrumpyOlMan, I know you've been doing some handloading for the 5.7. What's your take. There are literally no published loads which list an monolithic all copper bullet so I have to sub based on either length or weight.

So far, weight is easy. Getting length specs from the manufacturer has been like pulling teeth. I finally got a reply from Fort Scott but they gave me the COAL for their loaded cartridge instead of the OAL for just the bullet. I'm trying again. :)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I finally got a reply from Fort Scott but they gave me the COAL for their loaded cartridge instead of the OAL for just the bullet. I'm trying again. :)
.6980 OAL for the bullet. Now if I can only get replies from Hornady and Sierra (and I found a published load for Speer too). Just gotta get them to respond.

Peace favor your sword,
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.6980 OAL for the bullet. Now if I can only get replies from Hornady and Sierra (and I found a published load for Speer too). Just gotta get them to respond.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Sorry Kirk, been out at the cabin for a while. I believe that you'll find solid bullets tend to create more pressure so I'd use the low end of AA#7 for 45gn. Sierra spt. and work from there. You may want to pick up some moly spray and coat the contact area of the bullet to help reduce pressure. I'd also start with a small pistol instead of the small rifle primer. That may be unnecessary but better safe than sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sorry Kirk, been out at the cabin for a while.
Sounds like more fun than working.

I believe that you'll find solid bullets tend to create more pressure
Thanks for the heads up. I think I've read that elsewhere as well.

so I'd use the low end of AA#7 for 45gn. Sierra spt. and work from there.
Cool. I've actually be seriously considering the Seirra SPT and #7 as my cup-n-core handload as well. I nearly bought some online today but Midway is out of stock at the moment. I'll likely pick up #7 from the LGS this week.

If I can use the same seating depth for both the Seirra SPT and the Fort Scott and find a powder charge they both like, that'd take some hassle out of handloading.

I'm assuming you're suggesting same seating depth?

You may want to pick up some moly spray and coat the contact area of the bullet to help reduce pressure. I'd also start with a small pistol instead of the small rifle primer. That may be unnecessary but better safe than sorry.
I'll have to try to find some. I hope my LGS has it. I prefer buying from them before getting it online.

Peace favor your sword,
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Sounds like more fun than working.

Thanks for the heads up. I think I've read that elsewhere as well.

Cool. I've actually be seriously considering the Seirra SPT and #7 as my cup-n-core handload as well. I nearly bought some online today but Midway is out of stock at the moment. I'll likely pick up #7 from the LGS this week.

If I can use the same seating depth for both the Seirra SPT and the Fort Scott and find a powder charge they both like, that'd take some hassle out of handloading.

I'm assuming you're suggesting same seating depth?

I'll have to try to find some. I hope my LGS has it. I prefer buying from them before getting it online.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
It would depend on the ogive and how similar they are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Got my reply from Hornady:
"The 40 gr. V-Max is 0.684 and the 35 gr. V-Max is 0.517 in length. "

Peace favor your sword,
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Interesting bit of info. If you go to Outdoor Limited's site you'll see that Fiocchi is coming out with some new factory loads for the 5.7
From Fiocchi? I know that PSA will be releasing their own. They're claiming they'll release the FMJ for sale at SHOT. $0.50 / round. Self Defense loads from them will be V-MAX. But I currently carry the Speer Gold Dot loads.

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Got my reply from Hornady:
"The 40 gr. V-Max is 0.684 and the 35 gr. V-Max is 0.517 in length. "

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
I guess I'm not that worried about bullet length for the 5.7. You should have a decent set of calipers or a digital micrometer where you can measure that. One word of warning, the NTX Hornaday bullets in 35gn. will push pressures up past 35gn V-Max . It's a different design with a boat tail that seems to really affect pressure!
 

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From Fiocchi? I know that PSA will be releasing their own. They're claiming they'll release the FMJ for sale at SHOT. $0.50 / round. Self Defense loads from them will be V-MAX. But I currently carry the Speer Gold Dot loads.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Yes Fiocchi, I think they are starting to use Speer bullets in addition to Hornaday. I can't justify paying nearly $70 for 50 Gold dots.
 

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Yes Fiocchi, I think they are starting to use Speer bullets in addition to Hornaday. I can't justify paying nearly $70 for 50 Gold dots.
I still have some of "law enforcement" red box Fiocchi for self defense but now that hunting season is over I have several other bullets to play with.
 

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I read this post with interest when you first posted it. I saw there were no replies, and I did not chime in either. Reason being that I would not start reloading for this cartridge without a at least somewhat common recipe used common parts. There are no common parts to compare this bullet too. And I do not think either length or weight will be the motivating factor. It will be the resistance the bullet has in the barrel. I won’t make a suggestion because I would be fearful of a KABOOM.
 
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Why Ft.Scott? In common calibers they have not lived up to their claims in any way. They don't tumble etc. IIRC their accuracy is crap too.
 

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I read this post with interest when you first posted it. I saw there were no replies, and I did not chime in either. Reason being that I would not start reloading for this cartridge without a at least somewhat common recipe used common parts. There are no common parts to compare this bullet too. And I do not think either length or weight will be the motivating factor. It will be the resistance the bullet has in the barrel. I won’t make a suggestion because I would be fearful of a KABOOM.
There are actual reloading guidelines from powder companies as well as vetted reloading articles. Yes, this is not a round that should be loaded by a new person or someone who doesn't understand ladder charges and pressure signs. That being said as long as the correct caliber bullet is loaded bore friction is not a problem IF the proper precautions are taken. I've personally reloaded and fired over a thousand rounds of this caliber with different bullets. There are limitations as to bullet weight and charges and the 5.7x28mm case requires special care and vigilant inspection but the current cost and availability of ammunition makes it worthwhile.
 

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Why Ft.Scott? In common calibers they have not lived up to their claims in any way. They don't tumble etc. IIRC their accuracy is crap too.
While I don't put a lot of stock in some YouTube videos, Paul Harrell is an accomplished world champion shooter and former Leo shooting instructor. He has an interesting video where he shoots 80 gn 9 mm Ft Scott ammo through a meat target with both level llA and lllA body armor strapped to the front.
 

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There are actual reloading guidelines from powder companies as well as vetted reloading articles. Yes, this is not a round that should be loaded by a new person or someone who doesn't understand ladder charges and pressure signs. That being said as long as the correct caliber bullet is loaded bore friction is not a problem IF the proper precautions are taken. I've personally reloaded and fired over a thousand rounds of this caliber with different bullets. There are limitations as to bullet weight and charges and the 5.7x28mm case requires special care and vigilant inspection but the current cost and availability of ammunition makes it worthwhile.
I will respectfully disagree. As Kirk noted. There is no data on the specific bullet that he wants to use, therefore, with the bullet being a monolithic bullet, what monolithic bullet loading are you going to compare it to? It’s not like taking a 45 grain Hornet bullet from Sierra that you have a known safe load for and comparing it to a 45 grain Hornet bullet from Hornady.

Even among bullets that look alike and are of like construction can have tremendously different pressure signatures. All it takes is a slight difference in olgive, bearing surface, or jacket hardness.

I want data from powder companies, or bullet manufacturers. Those that have the proper equipment. I don’t want any data from some Joe Blow on the internet. Not unless I can be sure of the load work up and the equipment used. Once I find a reliable and safe load, I may tweak it for my own use, but I will NEVER share my data with anyone else.

If Kirk finds a load that uses a bullet similar to the Fort Scott 40 grain monolithic bullet, then I would tinker with my loading. Starting with minimum load data and working up in slight increments until I find my load.
 
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I will respectfully disagree. As Kirk noted. There is no data on the specific bullet that he wants to use, therefore, with the bullet being a monolithic bullet, what monolithic bullet loading are you going to compare it to? It’s not like taking a 45 grain Hornet bullet from Sierra that you have a known safe load for and comparing it to a 45 grain Hornet bullet from Hornady.

Even among bullets that look alike and are of like construction can have tremendously different pressure signatures. All it takes is a slight difference in olgive, bearing surface, or jacket hardness.

I want data from powder companies, or bullet manufacturers. Those that have the proper equipment. I don’t want any data from some Joe Blow on the internet. Not unless I can be sure of the load work up and the equipment used. Once I find a reliable and safe load, I may tweak it for my own use, but I will NEVER share my data with anyone else.

If Kirk finds a load that uses a bullet similar to the Fort Scott 40 grain monolithic bullet, then I would tinker with my loading. Starting with minimum load data and working
As I stated before, this isn't for everybody. I have a load that I've worked up for 43gn. monolithic solid Maker bullets. Because they have a different profile that doesn't make the info interchangeable with Ft. Scott 40gn. Even though there is powder company info. for 35gn. V-Max bullets it's pretty much useless for 35gn. NTX bullets made by Hornaday. (Fiocchi is now selling the NTX bullet in ammo). This can be true for any caliber. You are taking a risk whenever you substitute bullets even though some powder manufacturers will say it's ok to do that. Wood Bullet Ammunition Gun accessory Metal

That's why they always recommend starting on the low end as powder varies from lot to lot too! In this case I also sprayed the contact area of each bullet with 2 coats of dry moly lubricant to help lower pressure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
.6980 OAL for the bullet. Now if I can only get replies from Hornady and Sierra (and I found a published load for Speer too). Just gotta get them to respond.
Got my reply from Hornady:
"The 40 gr. V-Max is 0.684 and the 35 gr. V-Max is 0.517 in length. "
Someone over at Midway put a micrometer on the Sierra 45 gr. SPT. He measured a set of 5 and came up with: ".626, .625, .624, .627, and .625" ...so an averate of .625

off-site ref:

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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