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Do you need to remove the charge handle in order to take down and clean the carbine?
It depends on how far you go. Deep cleaning, with complete tear down, you'll need to pull the charging handle and the front sight assembly.
 

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ROLL wif Da MOLE!
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I skimmed through this pretty quickly, but no one mentioned an RDS of 4 MOA at 100 yards. It completely covers the 10 ring I believe. If you held the position of the dot perfectly steady for the whole group a 6" size with one flyer does not sound too far off, and I'd say you have just regular quality ammo to blame.
 

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I skimmed through this pretty quickly, but no one mentioned an RDS of 4 MOA at 100 yards. It completely covers the 10 ring I believe. If you held the position of the dot perfectly steady for the whole group a 6" size with one flyer does not sound too far off, and I'd say you have just regular quality ammo to blame.
A consistent flyer completely off the target, a repetitive drift, and a fancy-dancy cali compliant grip fin all point to a need for more trigger time to get used to the setup and a possible sight adjustment more than it does the size of the dot... but thanks for playing...
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
@Rachgier and @undeRGRound: Thank you for your input. I used a BT-5R-2 target at 100 yards, and aimed at the upper portion of the red rectangle. The red/green dot almost covered the width of the rectangle, about 4". The ammo was CCI Blazer 115 grain FMJ. After checking the target paper again, I did find the flyer. It just missed the left ear by 1". See picture 1.

Then I went back last weekend, and zeroed the red dot at 50 yards (horizontally). I tried to pull the trigger towards my nose during shooting. Of the 7 shots, 5 landed around the center of mass, one on the left arm, and one missed the right shoulder by 1/4". See picture 2.

In this second try with 50 yards zeroing, it looked like the shots were about centered at 100 yards (although the grouping appears worse than in Picture 1). However, when I shot it again at 15 yards, all 5 shots landed on the right of the POA, by about 1".

What puzzles me now is that if I zero the carbine at close distance (1st time, 25 yards), it drifts left at 50 and 100 yards. If I zero it (horizontally) further out (2nd time, 50 yards), it looks OK at 100 yards, but drifts right at close distance (15 yards). There appears a consistent drift towards left when target moves further out.

Maybe it is my trigger control, or maybe it happened by chance due to the ammo quality. Could this be a result of some optical issue with the red dot or even my version?

Even with all the inconsistency, I still managed to get a (5+6)/(6+7) = 85% hit ratio at 100 yards. I am happy with this carbine. The two misses were within 1".

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Could be trigger control, could be a parallax issue with the rds...
 

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Combination of all the above, possibly.

This is not sone of the most consistently loaded ammo, and if you purchased it recently it could have been made on machines that are also being worked overtime to fill the excessive demand these days... some here have gotten some better results with 9mm NATO and handloads, plus you could also substitute a known accurate scope which would rule out inconsistencies from a cheap RDS.

I'm far from an expert in precision shooting but you must start eliminating variables, and do these things one at a time. Then it's pretty easy to know what the problem was once things tighten up. Your trigger discipline will however keep improving the whole time most likely. If you are an experienced shooter, maybe consider an aftermarket trigger, I've had a few Joey's Keychain triggers but they are not made anymore, ask around but the factory trigger is usually not a problem. I'd wait on that one, eliminate the easier stuff first.

Ammo and Optics, one at a time and I wouldn't be surprised if you get a better result from one of those.
 
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