A challenge for everyone to participate in...

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by Jag, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. Jag

    Jag Member

    Alright guys, I have a scenario for you.  And there's a challenge to go with it.

    Here's the scenario, and it's a role-playing one: say you were a VERY low-income individual who had only a small amount of money to spend on anything besides your basic needs (food, clothing, shelter, basic utilities, fuel, transportation, etc.).  However, due, in part, to your low income, you live in a bad part of a city where there is plenty of crime.  You have already been threatened and targeted before by local members of a drug gang.  You are an upstanding individual who works hard for a living, and you want no part of the crime that occurs around your domicile.  However, the local gang has made it very difficult for you to come and go from your home as they routinely use the area outside your front door to make drug transactions with their customers.  They are very shrewd, and don't look very suspicious when the police come around to check on things.  Despite your reports to the police about their threats, there is very little the officers can do unless the thugs actually start committing crimes against you.  The parties who have verbally threatened you have been interviewed by the police, and they actively deny your allegations about the threats.  In the meantime, between the police patrols and your outings to and from work, you are vulnerable.  You've decided to purchase a weapon for self-defense, and you are open to any gun that you can afford.  However, you would perfer to purchase a handgun so that you can carry it with you wherever you go.  In addition to this criteria, you currently have only $100 to spend on any gun that you buy, in addition to an extra $30 for ammo/accessories. 

    Alright, so here's the challenge: I would like folks to research this question both on the internet and off, and report their findings here.  Include source references if at all possible.  See if you can find a gun that could cover the needs of the individual described above in the hypothetical scenario. It can be of any caliber and any make, and it can also be a long arm, although a handgun is perferred due to the mobility and ease of carry.  The any-caliber stipulation is based on the perspective that ANY gun in ANY caliber is better then NO gun.  Even a .22 LR would suffice here, so don't be shy--post whatever you can find that is available for sale on the internet or in local shops in your area that falls into the price range outlined above.  This is an experiment in thriftiness to see if someone with a truly limited amount of resources could actually obtain a firearm for self-defense.  And, yes, it is fair to move money from the accessories fund to the gun fund, but remember, if you do so, you won't have any more for additional components.  For an even greater challenge, see just how low you could go in price to get a gun--LEGALLY, of course!!!  And creative solutions to this problem are encouraged, as well (for example, if you know somebody who owns a weapon that you could offer them $100 dollars for and they would sell it to you, you could circumvent the retail markup found in gunstores, etc.).

    To get the thread kick-started, I'll post my entry.  Over the summer of 2008, I worked extra hours to earn money to buy a few handguns (okay, quite a few handguns  8) :D) since I just turned twenty-one and wanted to expand my collection in that area.  I already had a lot of rifles and shotguns, and I wanted some good handguns to round out my collection.  I was walking into one of the local gunshops here when I saw a nickel-plated handgun in the used firearms case.  I asked to see it and found out that it was a Davis .32 ACP.  I also learned that it came with a partially used box of shells.  It seemed in great condition, so I flipped over the price tag...and about fainted.  The asking price was $50, and it included the box of .32 ACP ammo!  I had that gun out the door in twenty minutes flat, and I'm glad I bought it.  It shoots great, it doesn't jam, and it looks fancy to boot with that shiny nickel-plated finish!  All told, I purchased an extra magazine for it and a holster to carry it in for an extra $30-$35 bucks.  Now, assuming that I hadn't got the box of ammo to go with the gun, let's say I just got the pistol itself for $50.  With a $15-$18 box of standard FMJ ammo, an extra $15 magazine, and a $20-$25 holster, that would come to a total of $108, which would still leave enough money out of a total of $130 for an extra box of ammo and a cup of coffee to boot!  Not bad for $130!  (Check out the gun gallery for pics of the .32 Davis.  It's the shiny silver-colored pistol next to the cream-colored holster in the "What you all have been waiting for..." thread)

    Thanks for reading and participating!  I can't wait to see some of your guys' research!

    Later, all!

    Jag  8)


    Edit: It's also fair to post options for black powder guns as well, if you want...


     
     
  2. Jag,

    We all love the problem solving and "what's your solution" type entries, and no doubt you'll get a bunch of input to the question I think you may be asking.

    Trying not to get too high on the dork scale [I may be too late already], I'll say: You violated your rules right off the bat! You're asking for the least expensive solution, based on research, but yours was "found" purely by chance. Your premise was violated too - limited funds - when you worked extra hours/extra job to earn enough money for lots of guns and ammo. One could assume that option existed no matter what and you could buy a good carry gun, a holster, and enough ammo to qualify the gun so you COULD trust your life to it. (versus a "find" at a gun shop and just enough ammo to get the rust off).

    Two other options - sticking with the scenario however. 1. Do nothing. Clearly you've reached some sort of mutual understanding. Maybe you serve them lemonade, do your best Obama imitation about live and let live, and steer clear of them as best you can. 2. Work those extra hours and move. Neither of these is very good option I know.

    In the scenario you painted however - buying a gun and them then finding out you have one cause you draw it one day......... man, you better duck. That .32 will be staring down the bad end of a .45, or a Mac-10 or God knows what. One could state the theory of self-protection / home-defense as having the ability to overwhelm ones opponent with show of, or actual use of force as a possible deterrent. This is a tough one.

    Sad part is, many of our brothers face this for real every day.
     

  3. Jag

    Jag Member

    True, it was a chance find, but that is what "research" is all about...and I'm including the bit about research to include scoping out local stores for a good buy to come in, including used guns.  And, as far as the limited funds go, I'm operating under the theory that you have $130 to spend PERIOD.  It doesn't matter if you worked extra hours, etc., to obtain it, it's just that that's the amount you have to spend on the GUN, not including the extra expense of having to pay for CCW classes, etc.  One problem at a time, my friend!

    If you don't have/can't buy a gun, then paying for extra expenses like practice shooting, etc., is a mute point.  Get the gun you want/can afford first, and then the next questions about further expenses can be tackled.  For the sake of the scenario, let's just assume that you're looking to buy the gun first and worry about the rest of the expenditures later.  So...

    Newskate, what would you buy?

    And thanks for your reply!!!

    Jag  8)
     
  4. Jag

    Jag Member

    One other thing: no matter if you have a .22 LR pocket pistol and the theoretical bad guy has a stinkin' .50 BMG, if you are close enough to him that you have to draw a handgun for self-defense, so long as you place those bullets you fire at him in the center of mass of your target, the individual or individuals will be just as stopped as if you had fired a twelve-guage at him/them. If you are in a gun fight, you use whatever you have on hand to defend yourself, and if that means a .22 LR, then so it must be.

    Any other thoughts? If I have missed something in my criteria, feel free to point it out. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT AND OBSERVATIONS, Newskate!!!

    Jag 8)
     
  5. 47_MasoN_47

    47_MasoN_47 You know who I am Member

    Personally in a situation like that where there's a gang involved and you can't afford a high capacity combat style pistol like a Glock or XD, I'd go with more of a weapon that would just allow you to get back into your house.

    Personally, I'd get some Fox Labs pepper spray (hottest stuff you can legally buy and has a 6' stream) to keep on you (trust me...that stuff will keep someone busy for quite some time) and buy yourself a good pump action shotgun. You can usually find some pretty beat up looking but functional pump actions for $100 or so, plus $20 for the spray keeps you in budget. Throw in a box of 3" buckshot for $8 even.

    There are a lot of pistols that can be had for under $100, but there's no way I'd trust my life to one of them. I think the pepper spray and shottie option is the best. Spray em in the face, run home and load up, then call the popos. They should be able to find the criminals easily, they'll be the people rolling around on the ground screaming.
     
  6. I like your line of reasoning mason lot easier to take a stand on the homefront with a mean shotty than in the street with a pistol you can't afford to practice with no matter the price or quality of said pistol . Just two opinions out of many though. 8)
     
  7. Eklypse

    Eklypse Member

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    I also say go for a good pump shotgun like the Maverick 88 or Mossberg 500 (used of course) I have found a few mossbergs for $110-$130 but that would put you slightly over the limit. Rossi make single shot break actions and sells them for under $100 I bought one at one point for $79 and change out the door. That leaves plenty of money for ammo. Granted this leaves you open when you are out of the house. You could find ways to make extra money I donate plasma twice a week every week and make $260 a month doing so (you get paid after each individual donation so you wouldnt even have to wait the full month). So take the first $130 and buy a Rossi break action with some ammo and you are safe at home and keep your wits about you until you can scrape enough money to buy a hi-point pistol for when you are out and about.

    Thats the way I see it.
     
  8. Jag

    Jag Member

    A question, Mason:

    Would you ever trust your Jennings J-22 as a pocket gun or backup to your primary carry? I do trust my "Saturday Night Specials", as I have found that the stories of them "KaBooming" are WAY over-exaggerated. Would you ever carry your J-22 as either a single pocket gun in light clothing or as a backup with your primary, whatever that might be? If you don't want to answer in the public forum, PM me...I'd be interested to hear your opinion.

    Thanks!

    Jag 8)
     
  9. Space

    Space Member

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    NH
    Assuming you need to leave the building and need to conceal, Russian 1895 Nagant pistol $80 box of ammo $25 = $105 + can of pepper spray $25 = 130

    Or inexpensive shotgun - Coach gun - $80. 00 Buck and maybe some Dragon's breath :devilsidesmile: should leave you some room for a bigger can of pepper spray (maybe a can of bear spray).

    ...of if you life is that crappy, you could join the Army and get out of there.......
     
  10. 47_MasoN_47

    47_MasoN_47 You know who I am Member

    I personally wouldn't ever carry my J-22 or my Lorcin .25 as a backup gun. The .22 seems to be reliable for the most part, but I don't want to have to worry in a SD situation "is it going to shoot this time, or is it going to jam?"

    I carry a Glock 17 as my primary and a Kel-Tec P3AT as my secondary. I've never had a jam with my Glock (about 800 rounds I've put through it so far) and I've only had one with my P3AT, which was after about 45 shots in fairly quick succession. The times I've just put 2 mags through it (normal SD scenario) it's performed flawlessly. That's the biggest thing I want in a weapon.

    It's true what they say, that a .22 in hand is worth more than a .45 in the safe, but to me a can of Fox Labs in the hand is worth more than a .22 that may jam after 1 shot. Space mentioned a Nagant revolver, and I would definitely go for it before going for my Jennings or Lorcin.
     
  11. Interesting scenario. I'm torn. I'd go for the Nagant pistol if I felt the need to CC. The used shotgun route if I wasn't going to CC. Buckshot works real well from street distance to up close and personal.
     
  12. Dave_H

    Dave_H Member

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    If carrying was a necessity, then at that price limit it will almost have to be a Nagant revolver. I purchased one For $104 some time ago. The prices stay low on those for a variety of well documented reasons. The trigger pull, the esoteric ammo, etc.
    No one would claim it to be an ideal solution, but it is an all steel, double action, seven shot revolver.
    If a hundred bucks was all I had to spend, the Nagant would start to look good. For all its shortcomings, it is a sturdy and reliable gun.

    If having a carry gun wasn't absolutely necessary, I'd look for a used Mossberg maverick. If you are stingy enough you can find a used hunting gun that would fall within the price range you are looking for.
     
  13. I'm in just about the same situation, my solution was to by a hp .380! It's like my American Express card I NEVER leave home without it!
     
  14. I seldom run across across a thread that just thinking about being in the scenario makes me uncomfortable, but this is one of those times. :thinking:

    I can't buy a gun over the internet without paying the FFL transfer fee. Fortunately, in my town there are plenty of shops where I can get a gun for <$100, even if it is a .22 or .25auto. (I happen to have a .25auto pocket gun which is worth about $80.00).

    To be honest, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that imminent risk was just outside my door, and I'd find a way to move. And that's not running away either. Being prepared if harm should come your way is one things, but staying in harms way is something else.
     
  15. my first option is to move. if that requires me to sleep in my car, on my buddies couch, or listen to my sisters' 11 kids, then so be it. your life is priceless, and take it from someone who grew up in a tough city (detroit, mi), losers do not value their own life, so yours doesn't mean anything. working extended hours would be a must because you want to live in area that is comfortable to you, plus it will bring in add'tl income for a quality shotgun and ammo. no need to be charles bronson and take out the gang members because they're always more to replace the ones who are killed or in prison. if your current employer doesn't pay you enough, work two jobs. this is where your survival comes into play. plus, working add'tl hours will keep you away from your current living situation, until it gets better. i'm not saying bad people won't go to better neighborhoods because they will, but if you can't get home w/o dealing with some sh&t, then it's time to move ASAP. once you are settled, then buy you a shotgun, and be the crazy guy who likes to clean his firearms on his porch.

    besides some good pepper spray and maybe a knife, i would concentrate my funds on moving.