accidental discharge

Discussion in 'General Hi-Point Discussion' started by shupnfish, Dec 1, 2014.

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  1. shupnfish

    shupnfish Member

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    July 25, 2014 I was cleaning my jcp40 and polishing the feed ramp to feed hollow points. Upon finishing I was feeding rounds by hand when gun discharged destroying my left knee. I'm not trying to start anything other than awareness that blowback design weapons can and at times will discharge while hand feeding. I've got about 7 million dollars worth of medical bills to prove it. I've since sold my hipoint and bought a striker fired pistol and will never own another blowback.
     
  2. The problem isn't the blow back design it's that the ejector is also the firing pin so ejecting live ammo runs the risk of firing a round. I was thinking the manual went over this but it's been awhile since i've had my c9.
     

  3. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Hopefully this one doesn't get out of hand....


    In reality, YOU had a negligent discharge. It was not the pistols fault that you shot yourself in the knee, and you WERE warned when you first joined the forum not to cycle live ammunition as the firing pin served in the ejection process. It is also well covered in the manual, but IIRC you purchased the pistol at a garage sale so you may not have received one.

    I am sorry to hear of your misfortune, and we have had another member here recently suffer the same situation.
     
  4. Stogies

    Stogies Member

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    That is correct, it's not the straight blowback part of the design.

    OP, sorry to hear that.
     
  5. Challenger76

    Challenger76 Member

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    In my jcp manual it says to pull slide back to eject chambered round. It doesn't say anything about the firing pin being part of the ejection process. This is scary but inspecting my jcp 40 closer I can definitely see how that could happen.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  6. Hermitt

    Hermitt Hey! Get Off My Lawn! Member

    Just a minor correction....

    The Hi-Point IS also a 'striker-fired' handgun as it does not have a hammer. So the ND really has nothing to do with the 'blowback' design, which is the alternate of the 'locked-breech' design.

    Also sorry to hear of your misfortune.

    Must never forget Rule #1 - Always be aware of the muzzle and never let it point towards something that you do not intend to destroy. Even if you think the gun is unloaded.
     
  7. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    First of all i'm sorry to hear about your misfortune.
    What exactly do you mean by 'hand feeding' ?
    It is not a guarantee that a round will go off while cycling the gun by hand but it is a remote but definite possibility.
    Racking the slide can be done a 100 different ways.
    To empty a gun with a loaded chamber I slowly pull the slide back with the gun canted so the round falls out.
    With the slide back it would be an out of battery detonation by the way.
    To the OP: did you assemble it correctly after working on the feed ramp?
     
  8. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Yep....rule #1 is there because one just never knows.

    And to repeat...never hand cycle live ammo in a Hi Point.

    Sorry for your pain.
     
  9. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Well, if he is using the same terminology as his original entry in to the forum back in 2013 when I helped him with a suggestion about tweaking his mags, he was hand cycling through full mags to check for feed issues.
     
  10. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    I have only to say this.

    In Heavens name why would anyone cycle a loaded pistol while having it pointed at himself? Then blame the pistol as having a malfunction. I think the blame layers elsewhere.

    Sorry for your misfortune tho.
     
  11. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    Because that would suck. I guess.

    Yea, It might have been mentioned. Dumbass.

    I'm just going to start handing out the stoopidest advice possible. Idjuts don't listen to me anyway.

    edit: $10 says he's completely full of $#!t.
     
  12. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    OK, so to summarize the responses so far:

    1. HP is striker fired as is the (probably Glock) other gun the OP has referred to.
    2. Simple Blow Back design is not the issue. Walther PPK and a zillion other handguns are Simple Blow Back and do not have the issues being referred to.
    3. The most likely cause of the Unintended Discharges is either
      • poor trigger discipline (most likely)
      • the striker also doubles as the ejector which means that when ejecting brass, the striker/ejector contacts the primer. This also means that an Unintended Discharge during cycling of live ammunition caused by the striker acting as the ejector would also nearly require the discharge to also be Out of Battery and the case would show signs of this.
    4. The OP was warned in his initial request for help thread not to cycle live ammunition: http://www.hipointfirearmsforums.com/forum/f273/new-guy-ammo-freed-problems-jcp40-299090/#9

    Here's the "take away" for anyone and everyone reading this.
    1. Never point a gun at anything you don't want to permanently destroy.
    2. Keep your booger hook offa da bangswitch
    3. Always be certain of your target and what's behind it.
    4. Always treat every firearm as if it's loaded and always assume that any firearm which you have not personally inspected is loaded.
    5. NEVER CYCLE LIVE AMMUNITION THROUGH ANY FIREARM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES! Buy dummy ammo or snap-caps. They're cheaper than a new knee.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  13. ArmyScout

    ArmyScout Supporting Member

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    Sorry to hear about your injury. But you do understand that what you were doing is not good firearm safety. There is only one to blame for your accident and you know who that is. Hope you heal quickly.
     
  14. Well covered subject, sorry for your pain. But in the future please never point your gun at any part of your body or the body of somebody else. That is unless you need to for self defense.

    Not the guns fault in the least bit.
     
  15. panoz77

    panoz77 Member

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    It wasn't an accidental discharge, it was a negligent discharge. I have an EXTREMELY hard time with the fact that the ejection alone caused the negligent discharge because as others have said that would have also been an out of battery detonation and caused significant damage to the gun and case. Regardless of how it happened, there would have been no injury if the muzzle was pointed in a safe direction. Blame can only be in one place on this one, the warning you also received was unfortunately for you very foretelling of the future.
     
  16. wganz

    wganz Supporting Member

    Highlight the most important part and repeat it to see if it sinks in.
    Feel bad for the OP but dummy rounds are easy to either make with your reloading press or buy. Definitely easier to deal with than that trip to the ER.

    Either be a dummy and shoot yourself, or use dummy rounds; your call.



     
  17. Ohhh come on! Let's take his word, I don't need pics of torn flesh to understand safety. Though some people may need it.
     
  18. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    I agree with WW don't need to see it. WW argue a lot but this is cr*p we don't need to see.
     
  19. Challenger76

    Challenger76 Member

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    When I unchamber my guns I always aim away from self and others and I pull back the slide slowly as to let the round drop out, rather than doing it fast and having it fly out.
     
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