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I am usually happier when they actually have charged a person, then it's on file as a legal document, not hearsay from a newspaper article. I believe it will happen, but I don't live in New Mexico.

There has been pushback in the media. Looks like they are testing public opinion.
 

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This is happening in New Mexico, not Cali, and he's being charged with 2 counts of 4th degree involuntary manslaughter. The lesser carries 18 months and a $5,000 fine. The second charge with the firearm included carries 3-5 years. I'm still predicting a no contest plea to the lesser charge, 3-5yrs of probation, and a fine.
I agree! The assistant director ,who is equally at fault has pled down and will not do time even though he was involved in the chain of custody of the weapon .
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I agree! The assistant director ,who is equally at fault has pled down and will not do time even though he was involved in the chain of custody of the weapon .
I believe I posted earlier that the AD pled out already? Negligent handling of a firearm. And that they had settled the wrongful death suit with the husband which included giving him a production credit in the film, for which they have already resumed filming.

Then there's something about how nothing exists withon NM law about how to charge them with involuntary battery for wounding the other guy. Does reckless endangerment not automatically attach to an involuntary manslaughter charge when you have to prove negligent actions to win your case?
 
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We saw some footage of Baldwin practicing drawing while on set- it was the same set but he was just rehearsing- it wasn't when the people were actually shot.
I saw it on fox. No, I don't have a link.
Anyway, we were observing him and he had his finger on the trigger- if not squeezing it- every time his hand came out from behind his blazer.
I think he maybe was being honest when he said he didn't pull the trigger. Could it be possible that he had the trigger squeezed as he drew, so when he pulled the hammer and released, it fired? I don't know what kind of revolver it was.
It certainly is probable that he's really that ignorant about guns and gun safety.
Regardless, as the actor with the gun in hand and as the head honcho of the whole shitaree, it's his fault entirely. But there will be no real justice.
 

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We saw some footage of Baldwin practicing drawing while on set- it was the same set but he was just rehearsing- it wasn't when the people were actually shot.
I saw it on fox. No, I don't have a link.
Anyway, we were observing him and he had his finger on the trigger- if not squeezing it- every time his hand came out from behind his blazer.
I think he maybe was being honest when he said he didn't pull the trigger. Could it be possible that he had the trigger squeezed as he drew, so when he pulled the hammer and released, it fired? I don't know what kind of revolver it was.
It certainly is probable that he's really that ignorant about guns and gun safety.
Regardless, as the actor with the gun in hand and as the head honcho of the whole shitaree, it's his fault entirely. But there will be no real justice.
It's a single action revolver.
Cock hammer, squeeze trigger.

In some cases, gunfighters would tie the trigger back with wire and 'fan' the hammer to rapidly fire multiple shots.

Alec was negligently holding the trigger back each time he drew, thus setting the stage for the event that occurred.

Sadly, for the film director.

Rerun
 

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It's a single action revolver.
Cock hammer, squeeze trigger.

In some cases, gunfighters would tie the trigger back with wire and 'fan' the hammer to rapidly fire multiple shots.

Alec was negligently holding the trigger back each time he drew, thus setting the stage for the event that occurred.

Sadly, for the film director.

Rerun
The FBI inspection of the weapon proved the firearm was in good working condition. They couldn't get it to AD. He was at fault. He failed to follow industry safety standards. He will be found guilty. Its New Mexico not California. Now if he will serve any jail time is another matter entirely.
 

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As I understand it, SOP on rehearsal scenes like that are done with no firearm or a wooden proxy. During actual set the camera angle is set so that the weapon is never actually pointed at someone. At least that's what I read. IDK if that's actually true but it makes sense. In any case, if Baldwin wasn't such a anti gun hypocrite he'd of learned the first rule of safe gun handling. Treat every gun as if it's loaded, and the 2nd never point it at anything you don't intend to destroy!
 

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As I understand it, SOP on rehearsal scenes like that are done with no firearm or a wooden proxy. During actual set the camera angle is set so that the weapon is never actually pointed at someone. At least that's what I read. IDK if that's actually true but it makes sense. In any case, if Baldwin wasn't such a anti gun hypocrite he'd of learned the first rule of safe gun handling. Treat every gun as if it's loaded, and the 2nd never point it at anything you don't intend to destroy!
There are a couple of on-set gun-safety rule sets out there and they all say pretty much Cooper's rules. This includes SAG, ims, so Baldwin has absolutely no excuse to not know them. I think the SAG version may have even included a statement about pre-scene training which actors have to opt out of to avoid.

I think I might have posted them before.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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There are a couple of on-set gun-safety rule sets out there and they all say pretty much Cooper's rules. This includes SAG, ims, so Baldwin has absolutely no excuse to not know them. I think the SAG version may have even included a statement about pre-scene training which actors have to opt out of to avoid.

I think I might have posted them before.

Short version, there are at least three different acting industry groups with standard rule sets which more-or-less mirror Cooper's rules, the Screen Actors Guild, Actors' Equity Association, and Actsafe. Details and links in the above linked post.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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The one thing I don't think has been made clear is where exactly the armorer was when this happened? Why did the AD have access to the cart with the guns and why was he the one to hand it to Baldwin yelling " cold gun" ? That's strictly the armorer's job.
 

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It seems to me that there are TWO paths to charge Baldwin with responsibility for the death of Hutchins and wounding of Souza:
1. His role as the person holding the firearm, and
2. His role as the producer of the film.
Holding the firearm. In my opinion, he has near-zero culpability in the first, as the person holding the firearm. He was handed a firearm which he was told was 'cold;' the actual movements he made after that were industry-standard, and were made under the direction of others. However, notwithstanding his freedom from liability in this role, he seemed to spend all of his effort defending and denying the plain truth of the operation of a Single Action Army 1873-type reproduction revolver. His passionate insistence that he did not pull the trigger is ridiculous to anyone familiar with the operation of these revolvers, and there are MILLIONS of us. Shut up, Baldwin; you pulled the trigger, but you have NO culpability for that act.
Producing the film. As producer, Baldwin has ultimate responsibility for hiring the people working on the film, and for the working environment. Problematic hiring include: assistant director David Halls, with at least two prior safety violations on films, one involving a firearm discharging unexpectedly, which led to his termination from that film; armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, who had been criticized in her only other armorer role for her handling of firearms. (Halls pled guilty to negligent use of a firearm on the Rust set.) In addition to problems in these two key positions, there were numerous complaints about working conditions, including safety concerns with firearms. It is not disputed that two prop guns were unintentionally discharged a total of three times prior to the fatality; there is also a report, later disputed, that crew members took the prop guns away from the site and shot at beer cans with them. As the producer, Baldwin IS responsible for the orderly and safe running of the project, and does deserves sanctions for unsafe practices.
Anyway, that's my take on this. I think the charge of Involuntary Manslaughter is appropriate.
 

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We saw some footage of Baldwin practicing drawing while on set- it was the same set but he was just rehearsing- it wasn't when the people were actually shot.
I saw it on fox. No, I don't have a link.
Anyway, we were observing him and he had his finger on the trigger- if not squeezing it- every time his hand came out from behind his blazer.
I think he maybe was being honest when he said he didn't pull the trigger. Could it be possible that he had the trigger squeezed as he drew, so when he pulled the hammer and released, it fired? I don't know what kind of revolver it was.
It certainly is probable that he's really that ignorant about guns and gun safety.
Regardless, as the actor with the gun in hand and as the head honcho of the whole shitaree, it's his fault entirely. But there will be no real justice.
It was a single action revolver and with them they can be fired by holding the trigger back and then pulling the hammer back and letting it go. That is the basic operation for "fan firing" .
 

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The one thing I don't think has been made clear is where exactly the armorer was when this happened? Why did the AD have access to the cart with the guns and why was he the one to hand it to Baldwin yelling " cold gun" ? That's strictly the armorer's job.
My understanding was that she wasn't on site.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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My understanding was that she wasn't on site.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Isn't that required? I've read some conflicting rules but one I'm pretty sure is right is that the master armorer has the key to the safe where firearms are to be locked and is the only one permitted to open it. Her father is pretty much a legendary master armorer in the business . This has to be killing him!
 

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Isn't that required? I've read some conflicting rules but one I'm pretty sure is right is that the master armorer has the key to the safe where firearms are to be locked and is the only one permitted to open it. Her father is pretty much a legendary master armorer in the business . This has to be killing him!
from:
"The armorer on the set of the film “Rust” said she was not called to inspect the gun that ultimately fired a live round, fatally wounding cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.
...​
Gutierrez Reed said Baldwin and others on the set of a church “had a duty and responsibility to call Hannah in for inspection of the gun and safety instruction before any gun scene was conducted.”​
“Hannah was not called into the Church before the impromptu gun scene rehearsal and she should have been,” the statement said.​
Gutierrez Reed said she had no knowledge of what was happening inside the church set that day and Baldwin was responsible for helping maintain the safety of the crew."​

from:
The armorer on the set of "Rust," the movie that was being filmed when Alec Baldwin fatally shot the film's cinematographer, accused Baldwin of failing to follow safety rules and procedures on set in response to the arbitration the actor recently filed seeking to avoid liability.​
...​
The attorney for "Rust" armorer Hannah Gutierrez, the daughter of long-time film industry armorer Thell Reed, released a statement Sunday in response to Baldwin's recent court filing, describing the rehearsal as "impromptu," and alleging that Gutierrez was not called inside the church to inspect the weapons before they were brought out. At the time, Gutierrez "had prop duties that she was forced to deal with," as production was "forcing her to take on more responsibilities for props," Jason Bowles, Gutierrez's attorney, said in the statement Sunday.​
In addition, the "video village," the area around the monitor on set, was not operating on the day of the shooting, which "further prevented Hannah from knowing what was going on inside the Church," Bowles said.​
Baldwin and others had a "duty and responsibility" to call her to inspect the weapon before any scenes involving it were conducted, Bowles said.​
...​
Baldwin did not accept Gutierrez's offer to train him on the cross draw, a "dangerous" method of carrying a handgun that started in the Old West, Bowles alleged.​

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
That conversation probably went something like, "I'm Alec fucking Baldwin! I've shot hundreds of guns in dozens of movies! I don't need to be trained! Go do what I pay you to do!"
 

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That's the thing that's going to hurt Hanna. As the armorer it was her duty to have all firearms under lock and key when not under her supervision. I'm thinking she got bullied into doing something she knew was against protocol.
 

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Pro's Con's Conjecture etc. It all boils down to...wait 'n' see. I for one do not trust the 'legal' system all that much. It would not surprise me in the very least that the A-hole
gets off with basically a slap on the wrist. And after all...he did not pull the trigger.
 

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The one thing I don't think has been made clear is where exactly the armorer was when this happened? Why did the AD have access to the cart with the guns and why was he the one to hand it to Baldwin yelling " cold gun" ? That's strictly the armorer's job.
She wasn't allowed in the building after she made her check apparently due to close confines of available space.

The prepped firearm was placed on a cart and rolled in out of her sight.

Rerun
 
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