American Rifleman & the 3895TS

Discussion in 'Hi-Point Carbines' started by lklawson, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

  2. lsi1

    lsi1 Member

    1,644
    1
    starting to think maybe Saami came out with a 380 +p spec that I just didn't catch.
     

  3. tallbump

    tallbump Supporting Member

    So....safe to assume there's no such thing as.380+p?
     
  4. burpgun

    burpgun Member

    7
    0
    Appears Buffalo Bore, Magtec, and Underwood have a +P .380 in their line up
     
  5. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

    8,912
    6,412
    SAAMI does not recognize +p in 380. I stay away from anything claiming to be +p in non SAAMI. It's the standard used to test firearms.
     
  6. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

    25,121
    1,380
    INDY
    But there is no SAAMI Spec to standardize a +P for a .380 ACP, as of yet...
     
  7. BiggBadJohn

    BiggBadJohn Member

    28
    0
    Just don't see the point of this rifle. 9mm is more powerful and cheaper to shoot and it is still limited to 10.
     
  8. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

    25,121
    1,380
    INDY
    That is what most of us old-time HPFF'ers are saying!
    I hope it works out for HP, cuz they have a sure winner
    if they ever build a 1095 10mm Carbine! :dance:
     
  9. B_Cassidy

    B_Cassidy Member

    321
    86
    Not if you handload :llama:
     
  10. lsi1

    lsi1 Member

    1,644
    1
    so the brass ferry drops off loads of 380 brass?

    I would guess that 9mm brass is easier to come across than 380 and when you do its probably less expensive. I know its much less expensive to unload the cases for the first time with 9mm and that means that over the loading lifespan of those cases I'd have to have a significant savings not a miniscule one.
    also are we talking casting bullets or buying them off the shelf?

    Not saying the 380 carbine isn't a good gun and doesn't have its place around the world but jut trying to debunk the 380 is cheaper to reload myth.
     
  11. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    The almost-short-but-not-long answer is, as already stated, SAAMI doesn't have any specs for a .380ACP +P. When SAAMI does spec a +P rating, it is usually about 10% greater than the max pressure so, if there were a SAAMI +P then it would be expected to be about +10%. Any actual .380ACP +P ammo is therefore exceeding SAAMI max safe specification for the cartridge. Additionally, no gun maker can actually claim that their gun is rated +P for .380ACP because, to reiterate, there is no spec.

    Now, as for ammo manufacturers making the claim of .380ACP +P, they are either exceeding SAAMI safe maximum pressure or they are loading to max (which often exceeds most major factory ammo, which tends to be very middle of the curve) and just calling it "+P" for marketing purposes. The latter is safe (if a bit misleading) while the former is unsafe and will void warranties in most guns.

    I don't know about Underwood or Magtec, but I do know that Buffalo Bore has recently confirmed that their .380ACP +P ammunition is not only exceeding SAAMI max safe pressure, but does so by a full 16%. If you've been paying attention, that's an additional 6% higher than the usual SAAMI spec rating for +P (when they do spec it).

    The usual argument in favor of using over-pressure ammunition which exceeds SAAMI max is that all firearms must be "proofed" with a SAAMI Proof Cartridge prior to sale. The Proof cartridge, from what I gather, are about 35%-40% over max pressure. So some people conclude that if a gun is capable of shooting one single proof cartridge at +35%, then it shouldn't have any problems with a diet of +16% cartridges.

    I'll let you decide for yourself but I certainly don't recommend it and you couldn't pay me to shoot .380ACP +P cartridges.

    Peace favor yours sword,
    Kirk
     
  12. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    There are several possible reasons. Most have already been hashed out several times.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  13. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Many handloaders buy new, unfired, brass to start from. Not everyone is a cheapskate like me and scrounges brass off the floor. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  14. lsi1

    lsi1 Member

    1,644
    1
    not scrounging sure does kick the costs up.
     
  15. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

  16. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

    25,121
    1,380
    INDY
    [​IMG]


    I could make all sorts of mathematical and scientific arguments for/against
    the tirade Kirk just gave out, but it would just muddy the waters. So I'm
    here to say, HE'S RIGHT! At least for the purposes of this discussion... ;)
     
  17. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    One of the "advantages" of having a young daughter is knowing exactly who this character is, name (Iridessa), even her fairy "talent" (powers).

    She's cute, but not the hottest of the fairies.

    This one's for SWAGA.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016

  18. And one of the usual responses is "for folks who live where military calibers such as the 9mm are forbidden" or for "folks who already have a .380 and don't want to mess with a new caliber". :rolleyes:
     
  19. B_Cassidy

    B_Cassidy Member

    321
    86
    The entertainment value of a Hi-Point carbine combined with the oddball gimmick of a 380 rifle chambering certainly sold a 3895 to me. Even if I just shoot it now and then for a chuckle and haul it out at group shoots with friends to see their reactions, I'd say its existence is perfectly justified.

    Not all guns need to be serious business.
     
  20. burpgun

    burpgun Member

    7
    0
    In regards to +P .380

    a) Don't own a .380, haven't for 20+ years. Just Googled, because I'd never seen a +P .380 in a store.
    b) Technically anything loaded above SAAMI could be called +P or "super magic fairy dust" (in keeping with the above theme)...because it is standard pressure + more pressure....or +P. As noted, more marketing than a accurate label in regards to Safety Standards.

    c) If you wanted to shoot a +P in a small frame .380, wouldn't it just make sense to get a compact 9mm.