Ammo Problems...

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by wd6bgn, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. wd6bgn

    wd6bgn Guest

    Hi,
    I just came back from our local range. I have been shooting the Russian Bear ammo for the past week or so with not much problems. It seems that when you load the first round from the mag, you want to pull the slide all the way back. Then let the spring pull it forward. Otherwise you may have to push forward on the slide to feed the first roun. OK, I learned from this. But...

    I shot a couple of boxes of Bear Ammo, then switched to the Winchester Wally World ammo. Holy Crap! You would think with the nice new brass it would feed great. But I got all sorts of stove pipe jams. Sometimes the empty would not eject all the way, and sometimes the last round in a clip would not feed properly. However my really crummy hand loads (95 gr bullet not alwise seated correctly, feed just fine.)

    Anybody else having problems with the Winchester 100 round boxes? I do want to go to the next IDPA match and shoot the Hi-Point, but I don't want to just prove that cheep guns won't work. BTW my little Kal-Tec 11 ate everything just fine and kicked the crap out of the deadly tin cans that were chargeing me. <g>)

    BTW, I did oil the gun, mags, and did polish the feed ramp with some 800 paper. I have 4 8 round mags and one 10 round mag and the problem was observed through all of the mags. (they are marked)

    I could send the gun back with all the mags and samples of the ammo, but for some reason I think the problem is closer to home.

    So far I have put about 600 rounds through my c-9

    -Ralph
    Other guns:
    AMT Back up (Single action in .380) Broke one fireing pin in 28 years.
    Walther PKS Easter block clone in 9X18, never a problem.
    Hi-Point C9, fun, but need to get the reliabilty up.
    Ruger Black hawk in .357 (my most accurate gun, great for deer hunting.)
    Heartiage arms six gun in .22 and .22 mag Basic fun gun.
    Comming soon. Baretta Bobcat, in .22, just a fun little auto.
    some shotguns,
    An SKS
    A Smoke Pole in .50 cal black powder.
     
  2. There was another post about problem WWB. I think it's in the HP general info section. I use Blazer Brass with no problems.
     

  3. I use Winchester white box and it gives me a few feed jams now and then, but, when I use the short pointed Remington white and green box everthing runs smooth.
     
  4. Welcome to the forum. Here is your problem in a nutshell. When shooting the steel casings do not form as tight as a seal as a brass casing. Because of this, the powder and grime builds up in those loose areas while shooting the steel casing. If you immediately switch to a brass casing, the diameter has slightly changed because of the dirt build up. The brass makes a perfect seal, but it cannot with the dirt that was left over from the steel casing. It results in a jam.

    To solve the issue, get that gun as clean as possible. Make sure it shines. Go back and start shooting with the brass first. If you are still having issues, then all you need is a simple mag lip adjustment.

    Some guns are just picky this way. You may just have to do a quick cleaning each time before you switch from steel to brass. Going from brass to steel should not be an issue.
     
  5. wd6bgn

    wd6bgn Guest

    Thanks I'll try that. However the problem seems to be mostly with WWB. The wolf runs just fine. The jam occurse when the round seems to "tumble" and not even point into the chamber. I'm going to try some remingtons and see how they do. They are slightly shorter than the WWB ammo.
    My little Kal-Tec just eats anything you feed it. Wolf, WWB, dumb reloads, it don't care.

    BTE I did polish the feed ramp somewhat, but that didn't seem to make any differance.

    Cheers!
    Ralph
     
  6. i've ran 3 or so hundred rounds of the wal-mart winchester thru my guns
    without so much as a hiccup. the fiocchi on the other hand jammed a lot.
     
  7. wd6bgn

    wd6bgn Guest

    If the wx isn't too bad tommrow I have a 100 round box of WW and 1 50 round box of the Remigntons. I will shoot up both boxes and see if who tubmbles in the mag.

    If wx sucks, I won't go to the range. Rain/Snow ruin the groups. :)

    Ralph
     
  8. The last time out I ran Wolf, Remington, and WWB thru my C9. Had FTF with the WWB. I loaded several mags with a mix of the three. I had 1 FTF and looking at the round it was WWB. Other than that the only way I knew which round fired was by the flash. Wolf is much larger.
     
  9. wd6bgn

    wd6bgn Guest

    Range Report.

    Hi, Well I just came back from shooting about 250 rounds. 100 WWB and the rest "other".

    Had two tumbles in the C9. (FTF becasue bullet not pointed in the right direction.) One hand load, same problem. The only other problem was the first round failing to feed. I fixed that by just pulling the slide back and letting go. No problem after that. Did have one, where the slide stayed open but the gun wasn't empty. A quick push on the back of the slide and it right into battery. <shrug?>

    I did shoot about two mags worth of the Green Box Rem. No problem. That is what I will use next month. I'm going to try at a IDPA match. I have the required plastic holster and a two mag plastic carrier. I'll post any results. :)

    I also have a Kal-Tec P11. It also stovepiped a WWB round, ate everything else OK.

    No real accury test, just plinking to make sure the gun went bang when it was suppoesd to. One fun round was somebody left an empty .22 box on the range, so I shot at it. I did not hit it, but I tossed dirt all over it, oh it was about 90 yards away. The biggist problem with that is my +50+ old eyeballs.

    Ah, could be nice weather tommrow. Must redo this experment.

    -Ralph
     
  10. wd6bgn

    wd6bgn Guest

    Ammo problem...solved?

    Ok, this may be wrong, but I'm still having problems with the Win white box ammo. I think I found out why. They are too long.

    Even my little Kel-Tec P11 would stovepipe on the WWB. Hmmm.

    Never had that problem with my other ammo. So I got out my caliper and measured some ammo. This is what I found:

    All Bullets 115 gr FMJ

    max (Lee Reloading) 1.169
    Winchester White box 1.162
    wolf (Cheep steel case) 1.155
    Remington UMC (Green box. 1.122

    reload 90 gr. hollow point 1.062

    Last trip to the range (Yesterday) I had feed probelms at least 8 times in 100 rounds. But none with my hand loads (150 rounds) or with the Rem. (about 35 rounds)

    Next step is I ran a box (100) of the WWB through my bullet seating die and pushed the bullet down a few thousands. I'll shoot the whole box, and if the jams stop, I think I found part of the problem.

    What I think may be happing is that during recoil and you are down to your last one or two rounds (Where about 95% of the jams occure) the bullets sort of bounce around in the magazine (Clip), then "drag" thier nose against the front of the clip. The spring is a bit weak here because the mag is almost empty. So when it trys to feed into battery, the bottom is up and the nose is down, causing a miss feed. Perhaps there is a bit of roughness on the front, inside of the mag? I dunno.

    Anybody else experiance the same?

    -Ralph
     
  11. wd6bgn

    wd6bgn Guest

    Range Report:
    I just shot a box of WWB that I had shortened a bit.
    Not a single problem. 100 rounds just sweet. With the stock length ammo, I would have a feed problem about 60-70% of the time on any single mag.

    I have one box of the WWB left. Those rounds will visit my bullet seating die and be "shrunk" down a bit.

    Anyway, that works for me.

    Cheers!
     
  12. Glad to hear that it seems that you found your problem. Happy shooting !
     
  13. The only thing that I have used so far in my C9 is teh WWB ammo. I just bought 2 more boxes, and I'll be shoting them Sunday, but as of yet, I haven't had a single problem with my gun.
     
  14. Every gun will have its own preferred brand/type of ammo that it will feed and function with, kinda like people have preferred drinks/foods. Two identical guns with consecutive serial numbers may not feed the same brand/type ammo, then again some guns will eat anything you feed them.

    I always shoot a variety of ammo to see what the gun does not like, and what it likes best. Then I stick with the best in that gun for as long as I own it. This can get aggravating when you own many guns in the same caliber and each has a different ammo it shoots best with.
     
  15. Thorn 242

    Thorn 242 Well-Known Member

    Anumber of years ago...I bought a springfield 1911 clone gun that would eat anything i put into it....including those 200 grain "flying ashtrays....but couldnt hit the broadside of a barn from the inside.....a lil loose ya think?....but as to the WWB and the Rem ammo... i do get a few ftf with the wwb...but the rem runs like clockwork
     
  16. My C9 will eat wwb's all day long with very few problems. It also loves the Magtech brass. She gags on wolf like it goes too far down her throat. Everyone's C9 is a little different, My Dad's will eat almost anything but wwb's. It's weird. :?
     
  17. wd6bgn

    wd6bgn Guest

    Well, I can't speak for anything my my "ugly stick". ;^)
    I wanted to try IDPA shooting, and the idea of haveing the gun jam in the middle of a shoot is just bad. I know all I would hear is "It's that damn cheep gun." So that's why I test shoot...a lot. At least I now know what my C9 likes, and why.

    Now I just made up a batch of handloads. 125 gr lead RN. I should be reloading for about $12.00/box 100. Good excuse to go make banging noises.

    Cheers!