ammunition meanings

Discussion in 'General Hi-Point Discussion' started by sdbrit68, Jun 6, 2015.

  1. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    Okay, I think its more than just me,but many probably dont want to say, for fear of sounding dumb.

    I understand basic ballistics, and a little more, but what I really dont understand is

    1) what makes one 9mm round better than another, why the price difference
    2) why would one 124 grain round be considered self defense, another target ammo ( discounting the hollow point scenario)
    3) why would one round be more accurate than another ( this one, honestly I am thinking is more techy talk than reality based on my own shooting)
    4) realistically, why would I want 155 grain vs 124
    5)if reload, with a good case, same powder, and from what I understand to be new primers and stuff, why would it be considered second rate
    6) what does it really mean that ammo is dirty, I know some I used smokes more and has a smell
    7) silver bear, its inexpensive, but is brass more accurate than steel case ?


    I know, lots and lots of questions, but, I admit when I dont know, and the google answers are all over the place, and using search seemed to broach the subject, or get way to technical for me to understand at this point.

    Any helpwould be appreciated
     
  2. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    1) Some ammo is made with higher-priced components, such as technologically advanced bullets designed to retain mass and expand reliably as they penetrate. Powder and primers also can raise the price because they can give greater consistency and reliability.

    2) Some 124-grain rounds are manufactured with very simple FMJ or TMJ bullets that cost little to make and use less expensive components. They work fine for plinking and practice but lack the other properties that would make them as lethal or reliable as the self defense rounds. Usually, the practice versions will run with a slightly lower pressure than the SD rounds so that the recoil and weapon wear is lower during range trips.

    3) Consistency in primer, powder loading and bullet design cause the bullet to travel at a speed within a statistically narrower window, while causing the weight distribution within the bullet to be consistent enough to prevent lateral drift as the bullet spins. This reduces the elevation and windage errors, contributing to tighter groups. Usually, only bullseye shooters will notice the differences.

    4) 155 would allow greater penetration, just by virtue of the added mass. It's not terribly common, though, so unless you are hunting with it, the added cost would not yield much benefit.

    5) Reloaded ammo is not always second-rate. In many cases, it can offer superior performance to factory ammo because it can be tuned to a specific gun. On the other hand, if the cases have had multiple uses, already, they could be close enough to the end of their service life to fail when you need them to work. That would be the only time that they could be second-rate.

    6) "Dirty" is a relative term. After shooting several varieties of ammo, you will notice that some leave more fouling than others do. I might think that a type of ammo is pretty clean, but someone else might call it filthy. It will all be based on your own accumulated experience with different ammo.

    7) Brass ammo expands inside of the chamber more tightly than steel ammo does. That creates a better seal and consistency in the internal environment. Precision comes from consistency. This, in turn, contributes to accuracy. Brass ammo usually is loaded with better bullets, as well. Nevertheless, steel ammo is plenty accurate for most applications. If you get a good deal on it, and your weapon likes it, go for it.
     

  3. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    thanks, helps a lot
     
  4. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    You're welcome. I'm sure that more information, with more detailed insight will follow, soon.
     
  5. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    Pretty spot on explanations.

    Only thing to really elaborate on is "dirty" ammo. Usually cheaper ammo will be considered dirty, you'll see when you clean your gun. It will leave behind much more residue and usually takes more to clean well. Its not necessarily worse ammo, it just doesn't burn out as fully. Think of it like owning a Corvette and using 98 octane most of the time. If you cleaned the cylinder bore each time it would be relatively clean and easy to clean. Now, if you switch to 87 octane, your cylinder bore will show more fouling and take longer to clean because it didn't burn as efficiently. I know its not 100% the same, but the concept I think makes it understandable.
     
  6. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    One thing I did notice, since some ranges have an issue with steel case, there is no reason to buy silverbear, as $10 more I can get brass.........planning on taking the plunge and buying a thousand to two thousand rounds at once.

    In the thousand, prices range from $260 to $850.......this being the main reason for all my questions, and of course to learn
     
  7. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    Before you potentially throw away a lot of money, find a brand that works consistently in YOUR particular gun first.
     
  8. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    That wide range of prices is tied to a wide range of ammo types. If you are going to buy whole cases, I would suggest getting the FMJ or TMJ rounds that work best for you. I assume that you are buying bulk for range use, and hardball works just fine for that. There is no need to use HP or SP rounds for practice. They cost more.

    If you want to buy larger quantities of self defense ammo, start with 100 rounds so that you can test its reliability in your weapon. If it works, buy 500 of that, and keep it aside. You can rotate ammo out of your loaded ready magazines at the range and then reload them from the rest of the 500-round stock.
     
  9. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    So far, everything I have thrown at the hi point and the s&W has worked fantastic.

    I want to buy quantity as it motivates me to practice more, when I am low, I keep 15 mags loaded in the house, and only shoot once a month, and my skills are not ready to do a cameo on walking dead at this time.

    I do have hollow points that were recomended to me in each pistol,the rest of the mags are loaded with basic practice stuff.

    I kind of figure,if I go through 20 rounds, at that point , anything that hits a target is good
     
  10. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    I go through a minimum of 150 rounds during a range trip, and I recommend a similar minimum round count to anyone else. It provides plenty of opportunity to build muscle memory in the strong and weak-side hands, and it also keeps you attuned to the way that the weapon has to be put back onto target after recoil. More repetition leads to less muzzle rise after awhile.
     
  11. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    good advice
     
  12. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    20 rounds once a month to me, is the equivalent of not practicing at all.
     
  13. Just to clarify,,,ALL ammo is defensive ammo:)
     
  14. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    Except for what you shoot at the range.:cool:

    Edit: It's wise to separate what you might call your operational load from your training load. If your intent is to have some set aside for a moderately protracted crisis, such as post-hurricane/EMP or some other troubled time, you want to make sure that you don't accidentally use it all at the range.

    Meanwhile, you do need to have a stock that is dedicated to training. It makes it easier to budget your inventory out for regular range trips. If you call it all defensive ammo, then you will either fail to adequately plan how much to keep for each purpose, or you will not train sufficiently because you won't want to use up your crisis stocks.
     
  15. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member





    Ah the fun I could have with the semantics.

    Nothing to see here, I have nothing to add but silly arguments made in jest.
     
  16. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    Around here, that could equal silly jests to start arguments.
     
  17. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    Reality is, you should train with what you intend to shoot. No, its not financially feasible to send a few hundred rounds a week of hi powered hollow points downrange, but, you should fire them often enough to know how they feel and fire, as there are differences.
     
  18. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    And that is why you buy them in batches of 500 after you've determined that they work in your gun. Then you can cycle out the loaded ones from your magazines, periodically, and reload them.
     
  19. ArmyScout

    ArmyScout Supporting Member

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    As talon posted. Shoot some +p if your firearm is so designed, shoot some HP, shoot some heaver rounds, and especially "the ammo you are going to use for self defense", if nothing else than to keep familiar with how your firearms react to recoil and accuracy with different ammo. But for just every day range shooting fun, I get the cheapest ammo I can find to kill targets.
     
  20. Outlaw

    Outlaw Supporting Member

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    Think1st, you took the words right outta my head