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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, I had a rather poor customer service experience today... I was browsing around the local stores in Kansas City checking price and availability of hi-point (I found $179, $189, and $199 for the C9, JCP, and JHP respectively), and I walked into a place called Guns Unlimited... The owner says he refuses to stock Hi-point because they're blocky and ugly, and he doesn't want the customer holding him responsible when something goes wrong. I said that yes, they're blocky, heavy, and have low capacity due to the single-stack magazines, but they definitely work. I mentioned the legendary warranty, and he said he "wouldn't know." I didn't feel like arguing with the guy, so I just asked if he had .223 ammo for my AR. He pointed me down to some WWB 5.56 that he was selling for something outlandish, IIRC. I said that I saw the 5.56, but no .223. He looked at me like I was an idiot and said "Same damn thing!"

Now, I may not be a ballistics expert, but I took issue to this. I started telling him about how the higher pressures in a 5.56 NATO vs a .223 Remington, and he insisted that the WWB was made to civilian specifications, and said he had a gun of his own that he shot 5.56 out of. He said that only the steel-core military ammo would cause a problem.

I don't know about the rest of you, but this struck me as a decidedly risky thing to be telling your customers. I really wouldn't want to be him when someone buys his ".223" to put in their $1500 civilian specification gun and tears it all to hell.

Conclusion: Would not go back. He's snobbish and elitist, and I wouldn't want to put his advice to action.

Which brings me to another question - I notice that I tend to get customer service that looks down their nose to me, so to speak, whenever I go into a gun store (with a few exceptions). Is this something that others experience, or does my young age, long hair, and casual dress cause it?
 

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Village Amadan
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It's you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I did figure... Ah, well. Maybe a haircut? :thinking:
 

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Village Amadan
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No...I was just kidding!

I have seen the same thing here in Oregon in a couple of the local shops. For whatever reason they act as though they're doing me a favor by being in business and having what I want regardless of the price. Case in point, one shop here has .45 ACP and he wants almost $50/box or $1/round. I asked him how many he had sold at that price and he responded quite a few. As it happens, several people came in the shop while I was there looking for .45, saw his prices and left empty handed. I reminded him that a trip to Wal-Mart could yield a box for under $19 and he told me go ahead and try.

Two hours later I went back to his store with four boxes of Remington/UMC for $18.67 and he still hadn't sold any of his.

The main gun store I visit (Welburn's) doesn't operate like that. He knows who pays his rent and treats all of his customer's with the respect they deserve, like it should be.

No, you age or hair length has nothing to do with the fact that some people are just world class jerks and wouldn't know how to give customer service despite the fact that they demand every where they go! That's why their prices are usually higher, so they can make the rent due to poor attitude. Just my humble opinion.

Mac
 

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Yup, its you. And I am not kidding. Long hair and askin for Hi Points... He's a Hater.

I was there a long time ago, and I was treated the same way and I don't mean at the LJS, I mean everywhere. I had hair down past my belt, and buying AK's, SKS's and AR's.

If I was treated that way back then or even today, I would just looked at the guy and say in a smart a$$ voice, "You can sell your shatty attitude to someone else", and turned around and walk out.

My favorite LGS is Rigler's in Rock Falls IL. Kenny has ALWAYS treated me with respect and a great attitude... even back then (15 years ago). :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Don't get me wrong - I'm not whining about not getting any "respect." The way I look and dress is my own choice, so I have nobody but myself to blame for the results. I'm actually genuinely curious. I had suspicions that I set him off when a young guy with long hair and baggy cargo shorts (though I draw the line a the waistband around the knees... I like my pants ON, thank you very much) came in asking for a "Saturday Night Special." OTOH, I do think he's got more than that to work out when he's selling WWB 5.56 as .223 Remington.
 

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I know your not whining. Remember I was a long hair too.

He doesn't know you, he judged you buy your looks, and he lost a sale. His mistake.

Who knows you might have spent $850.00 on an AR. But he'll never get that sale now cause you left.

The same thing happened to me more than once. One particular time, I had my long hair and a tie-die t-shirt on and walked into a new Ford dealership to buy a New Ford Ranger. Had my pregnent wife at my side. We waited to be helped for 25 minutes and there was no one else in the dealer even looking at vehicles. The place was dead. The two sales men looked at us and then continued to shoot the breeze. After 25 minutes my wife's feet were bothering her pretty good. So I left and took my money (which was as green as the next guys) and bought a truck somewhere else.

To heck with that guy. Buy somewhere else.

Plus He doesn't seem to know his ammo.

I myself got sick of it and realized that the world is full of biggots and there is no way around it. So I cut my hair.

Now I shave my head and look like a skin head. But its just cooler that way. I have a 1/4 inch of hair on my head right now and I am sweating my butt off. I am starting to feel like a darn hippie!! lol!!
 

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Shat, I got hair down past my shoulder blades always kept in a tail, full sleeve tats on both arms, 00 gauged ears and i'm OLD! in my area at least it's an age thing, they know i'm older and i choose to dress and look like i do because i'm at the age that i don't care anymore!! I would guess it is more age + dress that makes em act that way, either that or their just pecker heads!
 

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... The owner says he refuses to stock Hi-point because they're blocky and ugly, and he doesn't want the customer holding him responsible when something goes wrong.

... I just asked if he had .223 ammo for my AR. He pointed me down to some WWB 5.56 that he was selling for something outlandish, IIRC. I said that I saw the 5.56, but no .223. He looked at me like I was an idiot and said "Same damn thing!"

Now, I may not be a ballistics expert, but I took issue to this. I started telling him about how the higher pressures in a 5.56 NATO vs a .223 Remington, and he insisted that the WWB was made to civilian specifications, and said he had a gun of his own that he shot 5.56 out of. He said that only the steel-core military ammo would cause a problem.

I don't know about the rest of you, but this struck me as a decidedly risky thing to be telling your customers. I really wouldn't want to be him when someone buys his ".223" to put in their $1500 civilian specification gun and tears it all to hell.
This is indeed curious. He's concerned about his personal liability on a gun with a lifetime warranty and nothing more than rhetoric to base his claim of risk. Then when you ask for .223, he points you to 5.56mm and flippantly tells you, "same damn thing." If I'm not mistaken, they are two different rounds despite the similar bullet size. I believe the cases are not the same even though they will physically fit the chambers of rifles chambered for .223 or 5.56mm. I've read in a number of locations that the chambers are indeed different and that a .223 can be safely fired from a rifle chambered for 5.56mm but not the other way around. (For instance, try this http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/hist_diff.html.) Though I'm no expert either, it seems this would be the real liability concern and that you'd err on the side of caution. This guy doesn't understand the concept of personal liability well.

Which brings me to another question - I notice that I tend to get customer service that looks down their nose to me, so to speak, whenever I go into a gun store (with a few exceptions). Is this something that others experience, or does my young age, long hair, and casual dress cause it?
Other than that, it is just you and that hair. Get it cut son. Just kidding! I'm just jealous because I've got the reverse Mohawk going - hair on the sides and strip of bald in the middle. :laugh:
 

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Just to confuse, one of my AR's is an Olympic PCR (Politically Correct Rifle) and it is a Multi caliber, meaning .223 and 5.56 NATO. Each fires great w/o issue, at least 8000 rounds through of whatever is cheap without a single problem....think on that one! :D
 

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This is indeed curious. He's concerned about his personal liability on a gun with a lifetime warranty and nothing more than rhetoric to base his claim of risk. Then when you ask for .223, he points you to 5.56mm and flippantly tells you, "same damn thing." If I'm not mistaken, they are two different rounds despite the similar bullet size. I believe the cases are not the same even though they will physically fit the chambers of rifles chambered for .223 or 5.56mm. I've read in a number of locations that the chambers are indeed different and that a .223 can be safely fired from a rifle chambered for 5.56mm but not the other way around. (For instance, try this http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/hist_diff.html.) Though I'm no expert either, it seems this would be the real liability concern and that you'd err on the side of caution. This guy doesn't understand the concept of personal liability well.
This following is a simplified statement. Pages can and have been filled debating all the subtle nuances that exist between the two and likely results. I leave that to anyone who wants to go down that road again. ::)

Anyway

You are correct in your understanding of the differences between .223 and the 5.56X45mm.

Perfect Example.

Some rifles like Branth's DPMS Lo-Pro classic are chambered for 5.56X45mm and can shoot either without incident. However, If he had the DPMS DCM with .223 match chamber or any of their .223 match chamber varmint rifles he could run into potential problems with 5.56x45mm.

Both offer trade offs. But that is something you need to decide when choosing / building an AR. Some other manufacturers offer the Wilde chamber specs. Such as Rock River. Which will shoot both also. Like my RR NMA4.

FYI- Word of caution. Don't rely on website compatibility charts go to the manufactures web site to confirm. Or call them to make sure.

And as Branth said who wants to tear the hell out of a $1500 AR. Better safe than sorry. The money you save could be your own. :yes:

Walt
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@ Walt - I've done quite a bit of research on the 5.56 / .223 thing. I may not know a whole lot about guns, but when I get interested like I did when I bought my AR, I am pretty thorough. The 5.56 has higher chamber pressures, and while they're very similar, the 5.56 has a longer leade, so the rifling hits the bullett later. They're DEFINITELY not the same.
 

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@ Walt - I've done quite a bit of research on the 5.56 / .223 thing. I may not know a whole lot about guns, but when I get interested like I did when I bought my AR, I am pretty thorough. The 5.56 has higher chamber pressures, and while they're very similar, the 5.56 has a longer leade, so the rifling hits the bullett later. They're DEFINITELY not the same.
@ Branth,

That what I said.

Walt
 

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Just to confuse, one of my AR's is an Olympic PCR (Politically Correct Rifle) and it is a Multi caliber, meaning .223 and 5.56 NATO. Each fires great w/o issue, at least 8000 rounds through of whatever is cheap without a single problem....think on that one! :D
Never Heard of the PCR model.

The only Olympic Arms AR's I am aware of that are not chambered for 5.56x45mm (which will shoot both).

Are the K8 Mag , UM1 & UM1P all .223 chambers.

Walt
 

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Just another gunstore guy who thinks he's the only place in the world that sells firearms. I make a point of never walking in a place like that ever again. They might not go under, but they will lose hundreds or thousands of dollars they could of had.
 

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Most people deride the things they have no real knowledge or experience of. People in retail want to sell what has the highest profit margin for them. It's easy to develop tunnel vision that way. They don't realize its not good salesmanship. Its not going to encourage customers to buy from you when you deride what the customer is asking about. A more honest and much more businesslike reply would be "I don't really know a lot about the Hipoints and therefore just don't carry them."

I can spend my money somewhere that the salesman actually does know what he's talking about.
 

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I walked into my LGS today to pick up some 9mm ammo and the guys behind the counter joking around call me there "Hi Point Guy".

I think that when I walk in there and eventually buy a different brand of firearm (Springfield XD) they will think hell has frozen over. lol!!
 
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