Another Shooting in Montana of a Teen

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by planosteve, May 1, 2014.

  1. planosteve

    planosteve Lifetime Supporter

    Saw this on the BBC News site and thought it was interesting. According to the article the guy was PO'd about home burglaries so he set a trap with his open garage as the bait, his wife also left her purse in plain sight in the garage. They had video and motion detectors set up also. The not so bright firefighter had told several people in town that he was setting a trap and was going to be shooting criminals. Apparently Montana law only allows you to shoot if you are in danger. He has been charged with murder.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27243115

    Edit: I screwed up the link
    Edit 2: I am a moron today I screwed it up twice time for a beer.
    Edit 3: I am pushing the limits of being a moron I messed it up again.
     
  2. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Well, it works now.

    From the article:

    "What the castle doctrine has done in this country is it has created a culture of gun violence and vigilante justice," Ms Hill, a Democrat who represents Missoula, said.

    "And it's created a culture that it's okay to shoot first and ask questions later."


    Maybe if she and her type would quit whining and start teaching their kids how to act, the castle doctrine would create a culture where a man can leave his house unlocked and not get robbed.:rolleyes:

    Again, the guy over-reacted badly, but if the kid had been at home in bed...:cool:
     

  3. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    Just to point out the pink elephant in the room; what if the kid was the burglar from previous nights?

    [​IMG]

    http://www.kulr8.com/story/25392184/exclusive-photo-diren-dede-moments-before-shooting

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/29/foreign-exchange-student-shot/8445731/
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  4. He will probably get some prison time for this. Premeditated murder. Yes, the thief is responsible, but the shooter planned revenge, and told people about his plan.
     
  5. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    That was my point in the previous discussion.
    Curious that his wife apparently encouraged him into doing this.
     
  6. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member


    +1 that....
     
  7. Hermitt

    Hermitt Hey! Get Off My Lawn! Member

    In Biblical times, common thieves were crucified. In the Old West, they were shot. These days, we give them Guberment Assistance.... What's wrong with this picture? :rolleyes:
     
  8. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member


    Too many people think they have something coming to them, or too many people think those people ought to have it, because of their' feelings of guilt.
     
  9. Rerun

    Rerun Supporting Member

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    In many States, it is illegal to 'hunt' over 'bait'...

    eldar
     
  10. planosteve

    planosteve Lifetime Supporter

    I am sitting here thinking about this and was trying to determine what property I have that is worth killing someone over. It came out to very little. Other than my firearms, as they are most likely loaded and would them pose an imminent threat, I would not shoot someone over property. I would attempt to hold them for the police but if there was no threat I would not shoot. If they run I let them go, as again they are no threat. That said, if you kick in my door and come at me or my family you are fair game.
     
  11. j_inmon

    j_inmon Member

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    Just a hypothetical. What if something of his went into the garage? Say he was walking home and bouncing a soccer ball around (he did play soccer) and it took a weird bounce, or he pulled his phone out of his pocket and a dollar fell out and blew into the garage? Or even a neighbor comes home late, sees the garage door open and the lights out in the house, and decided to shut it for you. It is a little to easy to shoot an innocent person in the situation he set up.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  12. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    That's a lot of what if.:rolleyes:
     
  13. j_inmon

    j_inmon Member

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    Yes but the more what if situations that could plausibly happen where you end up killing the wrong person the more you should rethink the plan. ;)
     
  14. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    But you don't need any "what if" to reject that guy's plan, it was stupid and illegal from the beginning.:mad:

    You are doing what the media always does, make one dumb plan into a horror story full of fear and what if...and then it becomes what if people couldn't kill each other? What if we got rid of guns?

    Just stop it!

    Here's the only what if we need...what if the kids there weren't robbing people, and the guy hadn't been robbed and angry, and hadn't decided to kill the thief?
     
  15. j_inmon

    j_inmon Member

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    Its also a "what if" that he was their to rob them

    "When the sensors went off just after midnight and they saw a man on the monitor screen, Mr Kaarma went outside and fired a shotgun into the garage without warning several times.

    It is unclear what the teenager was doing inside in the garage."


    We've already had a long thread on why it was stupid and illegal in the first place. Its very plausible that someone not intending to rob this homeowner at all could be shot and may have very well turned into a horror story (we don't know that's not what happened here). No one here is saying get rid of the guns, stand your ground, or self defense at all. Just get rid of the stupid "plans"
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  16. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member


    Dude? Are you a pro theft advocate? Yes, again stupidity has overcome morality, and common sense.... But good Lord, wtf do YOU think that guy was doing in someone else's garage "just after midnight"..... And again not to justify it, but if you don't want to be shot... STAY THE F*** OUTTA OTHER PEOPLE'S HOMES!!!...Gee Whiz!
     
  17. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    My neighbor left the side door open on his cargo trailer one night after he got home from a show. I know he tends to leave his super expensive sound equipment in the trailer overnight because it's usually 3-4am when he gets home from a show. I knocked on his door and woke him up. Wouldn't dare go in to someone's garage or trailer like this kid did. Good Samaritan or not, this kid was a dumbass. The dude who shot him was an even bigger dumbass for broadcasting his plans.

    I don't care how many times I get robbed, I won't set a trap or bait anyone in to try it again. I'll sleep downstairs on my couch with a firearm and a baseball bat at the ready, leave a few lights on so they think someone is up and about, and make the dogs sleep downstairs with me instead of letting them be lazy bums and sleep in my bed with the old lady.

    If you're dumb enough to steal from the same person repeatedly, getting snuffed is pretty much natural selection at work. If you're dumb enough to flop your cack out on the table and brag about killing someone BEFORE you are acquitted and double jeopardy is attached, then you deserve to have it chopped off.
     
  18. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,611
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    Then say that instead of "what if".

    Personally, I'd say it's not the plan...it's the telling people about it that needs to got rid of.:cool:
     
  19. monsterdawg

    monsterdawg Member

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    Do not break in to someone's house do not take other people's things. There may be consequences and they may be lethal. Of course I do not want to see someone killed, and do not agree with setting "traps", but, if people do not break into people's homes or cars or carjack people, it significantly reduces their chances of being shot by the homeowner/car owner. I still claim that if the guy had not been in a place he should not have been, attempting to do something he should not have been doing, it would not have happened, just like the two teens in Mr Smith's house. It does not matter if what the homeowner's did was "illegal", the kids are still dead because of the decisions they made.
    Dad always told me that if I broke into someone's home, I was likely to get shot. Doesn't matter if it's justified or not, death does not know the difference.


    Sent from my iPhone using Hi-Point Forum
     
  20. bluebone

    bluebone Duke of Sarcasm Member

    But they're kinda weak whatifs at that. Something rolls into the garage, you knock on the door and ask permission to retrieve it, a dollar blows away? It's a dollar, big deal. Someone leaves a door open? Not your problem. There is such a thing as trying to be TO good of a samaritan. Don't be that guy.