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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
gun-deals has a pretty good deal on Brown Bear 9mm - any input?

BB 9x19mm Ammo (500 rds) Description

We have sealed (500 rd) cases of new 2009 production Russian Brown Bear 9mm 115gr FMJ ammunition. This is the 115gr. lead cored FMJ ammo. This ammo is mfg for Bear by Barnaul of Russia who is world respected for there quality and consistency of load. It is loaded at 1180 FPS.
 

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Decent ammo, Lacquered steel cased I think? Could cause issues with extractors after a while, and in a rapid fire situation, the lacquer can melt and cause problems (Never get Brown Bear for an AR)
Otherwise, great range stuff.
 

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It is lacquered steel. It's great ammo, if used sparingly. A steady diet of lacquered casings can do bad things to a firearm. With proper cleaning you'll be OK, but it must be thorough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hoss

Can you elaborate a little - how steady is a "steady diet"?

And, how sparingly is "sparingly"?

You buy 500 rounds of this stuff, you're gonna use it exclusively, and living on a farm, I'm going thru 25 rnds a day.
 

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A lot of rounds isn't a problem, the problem comes when you shoot those rounds quickly, as the receiver warms up and melts the lacquer, which then gums things up...
A round every 10 minutes should be no issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ajole

I can't get a full clip to last 10 minutes :D

Hell, I can't get it to last 2.....

Sounds like BB's not for me...
 

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I hear that brother! :angel:
 

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cnsranch,

what ajole mentioned is exactly what I was getting at. IMO, any regular practice should include at least a couple rounds of rapid fire drills. I've had buddies claim that they've had no problems with lacquered casings while doing rapid-fire, but I've personally had a Beretta 92 lock up on me as a result of them. It took a lot of time and solvent to get it corrected.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thx, Hoss

That's good to know - like everyone else, I'm just looking for 115gr target ammo I can let the C9 eat....

Practice makes perfect, and God knows, I need a lot of it :)
 

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Has anyone actually confirmed the stuff about laquer melting into the receiver? I've used laquer coated ammo in my AK without problems. We went out and shot about 300 rounds of the stuff in 30-45 mins, the handguards were smoking from the barrel being hot and the stuff worked just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well... here's something I found from Olympic:

Ammunition Warning
This warning comes based on an increased volume of customer calls regarding feeding and ejection malfunctions of AR-15 style rifles. Further investigation of these situations came to prove that the vast majority of these malfunctions were based on ammunition, and not the firearm itself. Following is some of the information that have compiled based on this investigation.

Lacquer Coated Ammo
If you plan on using lacquer-coated ammo in your Olympic Arms AR-15, please be aware of the following. We have received many recent phone calls, as well as some rifles sent in for repair, complaining about reliability problems in their Oly Arms AR's. The first question usually asked is, "What ammunition are you using?" The answers to the question, as well as seeing the chambers of the rifles that were sent in are showing us that lacquer coated ammo is clogging the chambers badly.

What we are seeing is that once the chamber in the rifles gets hot, it is melting the lacquer off of the casings, and leaving a gelatinous goo in your chamber. Under continuous fire, this is usually not noticed, but once you stop, the barrel cools, the lacquer sets and you now cannot chamber and/or properly extract your ammunition. You will experience this in AR-15's much more frequently than other rifles such as the SKS and AK/MAC variants. In most cases the 7.62x39 rifles have chambers cut to the large end of the safety spectrum so that feeding and reliability is uncompromised by the type of ammunition or the consistency of the case dimensions. AR style rifles, and especially those from Oly Arms will have tighter chambers so that you can experience a greater level of accuracy that these rifles are capable of performing. Olympic chambers specifically are cut to 5.56 NATO specs via Clymer reamers in all button rifled barrels, and minimum SAAMI spec .223 Remington on all SUM Ultramatch barrels. Our rifles will provide superior accuracy, partly based on that fact.


Major brands of lacquer coated ammo we have seen are Wolf, most Russian ammo (even if it has the Remington head stamp), Norinco (or most Chinese) and most all former eastern block countries.


Our recommendations: DO NOT USE LACQUER COATED AMMO. Otherwise, be prepared for the consequences. Additionally, most lacquer-coated ammo utilizes steel cases instead of brass. BAD FOR YOUR CHAMBER.


The Consequences: Poor feeding, poor extraction, poor accuracy, and an impossible to clean chamber possibly resulting in a rifle that simply does not work.


Although Olympic Arms only warrants their firearms when used with new production brass cased US manufactured ammo, we would be remiss to think that the bulk of our customers do not use remanufactured, imported or reloaded ammo. We know that they will, and do. The reason that our warranty does not cover the use of this ammo is as much to protect you, as it is our product and our product. If you are using factory US new manufactured brass cased ammo, and something goes wrong and the rifle is damaged, the ammo manufacturer will usually take care of any repair costs. If not, and the damage can be proven to be the fault of the ammo, you have some sort of course of action you can take against that manufacturer to recover some or all of the expenses of the repairs. If you use foreign lacquer coated ammo as an example, you have NO options.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
And this from a Moderator on another forum:

That is an urban legend. Lacquer coating WILL NOT melt and gum up your gun.
All Soviet Bloc countries used lacquer coated ammo in their rifles and pistols with no problems. I have used it in 9MM, .45, .223,. 7.62X39 and 5.45X39.

If you think the lacquer will melt, take a fired case and hold a propane torch to it. The lacquer will eventually burn under the intense heat of the torch, but it will not melt.

The U.S. Military has used lacquer to seal primer for nearly a hundred years with no ill effect. Moist premium law enforcement ammo uses lacquer to seal the primers in.
 

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Yep, that's the problem with making statements that make no room for exceptions. not to mention, in what way does putting a flame to lacquer replicate what a hot receiver does to lacquer? That was a silly test...IMHO!

You might have no issues, you might lock up...Eastern Bloc stuff has looser tolerances, and seems to have no issues with the lacquer at all, (which explains why the Soviet stuff is OK with lacquer, as that mod said) and some American stuff, even AR's can use it, while others jam. Hoss230 says his pistol jammed, which makes the mod's idea that it is a myth seem sort of silly, doesn't it? :D I think that Mod may have overstepped a little there, and ignored a LOT of reality as well... :devilsidesmile:

You do what you have to...personally, I use Silver Bear and Golden Bear, Wolf and Seller&Belliot and Fiocchi and any milsurp I can get my hands on, in my Eastern bloc guns. I use Wolf in my AR a lot, but I also TRY to get other stuff when I can, like S&B, Barnaul, PMC, etc...but I don't tend to shoot 500 rounds in an afternoon, either.
The good news is, it is getting harder to find actual lacquered stuff anymore...except the Brown Bear of course! :D So this may all become moot.
 

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i shot the steel kind...i had i jam...other that it was good but i was in breakin i period.
the only thing i dont like is that your gun is gonna get dirty shooting that Sh*t.
 

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i shot the steel kind...i had i jam...other that it was good but i was in breakin i period.
the only thing i dont like is that your gun is gonna get dirty shooting that Sh*t.
I have experienced jamming in my c-9 after about 50 rounds or so. It DOES make the gun filthy and does at up quick. However I too was technically in the "break in" period. So meh give myself 500 rounds later to figure out if I am good or bad.
 

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The old C model I got recently I took 50 rds of the Brown Bear on purpose..It shot them all great but based on the smoke and smell..I'm glad 50 was all I shot. It was extremely dirty once I got home and cleaned it. No issues shooting the stuff in MY HP..but I sure would not make it my regular ammo choice. (for my Hi-Points anyway)
 
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