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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Preface, the 1934 NFA definition of a Machine Gun; "26 U.S.C. § 5845(b) For the purposes of the National Firearms Act the term Machinegun means: Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger." (emphasis added by me)

The story thus far.
From Biden Pulls a Trump Card - Rare Breed FRT-15 Trigger Now Classified as a Machine Gun -

The ATF has declared the FRT-15 drop in trigger to be a "machine gun"; Rare Breed is in court over this; because Rare Breed says according to the letter of the law; the FRT-15 system is not a machine gun.

Rare Breed's lawyer team has posted a response

Rare Breed Trigger's ATF Response: The Hero We Need

Basically saying that according to NFA definition, the FRT-15 is a SemiAuto trigger as it "shoots 1 round per single function of the trigger".

I have yet to hear updates from the court proceedings but it is happening now.

Note; Rare Breed did not submit their trigger to ATF'S tech branch because it is not required to.

Nothing in the law states a semiauto gun must shoot at a slower rate than a machine gun. (See Jerry Miculek ;) )
 

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Rare breed's trigger is just a very light trigger from my understanding that enables the shooter to up their rate of fire. It certainly does not make a rifle into a full automatic. I would not want this trigger but if others want it more power to them. With how expensive ammo is the item is a very expensive range toy in my opinion.

Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco firearms can go pound sand. Why not spend more of your current resources on investigating firearms going over to Mexico illegally? What a waste of money bothering with a stupid trigger assembly. Control freaks.
 

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So it isn't a binary trigger?
 

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Rare breed's trigger is just a very light trigger from my understanding that enables the shooter to up their rate of fire.
Not exactly. It is a "forced reset." That means that the reset actually pushes back. You still have to pull the trigger but the trigger will help push itself back out to reset.

Here's a yootoob video of a Lawyer talking about it:

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Tidbits.
A .50bmg M2 has a 500 rpm rate of fire.
A M249 goes up to 850 per minute.
A MG42/MG3 can get up to 1400 per minute
M16 does 950/minute
M4 700-970/minute

It has been proven that a human finger can trip a trigger at 10 to 15 times a second, depending on how short the cycle takes. This is between 600 a minute to 900 a minute
 

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So, does this trigger override a person holding the trigger back?

As in you can’t prevent it from pushing forward on its own?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So, does this trigger override a person holding the trigger back?

As in you can’t prevent it from pushing forward on its own?
There are reports that the trigger can be held back and would still be semiautomatic in the classic sense; but it is very difficult and requires quite a bit of grip strength. The reason its difficult is because of the linkage and mass of the bolt that seems to act as a lever to force the trigger forward. On the other hand, if you deliberately release and don't let your finger stay on the trigger, it might well still be semiautomatic.
 

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Tidbits.
A .50bmg M2 has a 500 rpm rate of fire.
A M249 goes up to 850 per minute.
A MG42/MG3 can get up to 1400 per minute
M16 does 950/minute
M4 700-970/minute

It has been proven that a human finger can trip a trigger at 10 to 15 times a second, depending on how short the cycle takes. This is between 600 a minute to 900 a minute
You realize that Jerry is closer to the MG42, right? That man is not human!
 

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So, does this trigger override a person holding the trigger back?
From what I've read, no. You can still hold the trigger back for "follow through."

As in you can’t prevent it from pushing forward on its own?
Yes. The above linked lawyer describes it as "trigger slap."

From what I can find, it is a deliberately designed way of replicating what happens when you accidentally double because the recoil bumps your finger off of the trigger but you're still exerting trigger pull pressure.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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All this hair splitting will accomplish is the ban on EVERYTHING related to an AR15.
Theres nothing wrong with a AR as they come for most people not on some tactical bs trip.
So then, all these tactihole innovations are doing us no favors. HiPointe Men know this instinctively. If they got 300 dollars its gonna get spended on something that SHOOTS BULLETS not some fairy trigger amirite ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
All this hair splitting will accomplish is the ban on EVERYTHING related to an AR15.
. If they got 300 dollars its gonna get spended on something that SHOOTS BULLETS not some fairy trigger amirite ?
You could easily spend $300+ on a great set of optics.
A real good free float tube/rail
An EBR chassis for M1A
Anything with the name Volquartsen for a 10/22
A real nice AR barrel
 

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exactly
the tactiholes must be shunned
they draining away too much mojo & bastardizing it all
these people are nutty
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
exactly
the tactiholes must be shunned
they draining away too much mojo & bastardizing it all
these people are nutty
Eh. There's a market for the items, there's money to be made. And apparently Rare Breed isn't the only one making forced reset triggers. There are a couple smaller shops doing them as well, from what I could find. And again, according to the letter of the law.... the Rare Breed trigger and others like it are not machine guns.
 

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All this hair splitting will accomplish is the ban on EVERYTHING related to an AR15.
Theres nothing wrong with a AR as they come for most people not on some tactical bs trip.
So then, all these tactihole innovations are doing us no favors. HiPointe Men know this instinctively. If they got 300 dollars its gonna get spended on something that SHOOTS BULLETS not some fairy trigger amirite ?
No Elmer you are wrong. Give an inch, they take a mile. Full auto was legal in 1986. It should be again. You need reaquaint yourself with the intent of the 2A.

How much did you donate to the FPC and when? How about the GOA? How much to Lapierre's clothing allowance?

In case you are uniformed, or ignorant of the facts. The end game they're coming for everything. EVERYTHING! Have no doubt.
 

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All this hair splitting will accomplish is the ban on EVERYTHING related to an AR15.
Theres nothing wrong with a AR as they come for most people not on some tactical bs trip.
So then, all these tactihole innovations are doing us no favors. HiPointe Men know this instinctively. If they got 300 dollars its gonna get spended on something that SHOOTS BULLETS not some fairy trigger amirite ?
Agree with @TNTRAILERTRASH This isn't about the trigger. It wasn't about bumpstocks. It's not about 80% lowers and pistol braces. It's about AFT making up new "law" not by legislation but by memo and rule. It's about Congress and state legislatures making laws that blatantly violate 2A.

I have 102 full auto keys on my computer. What if they came up with some cockamamey law that you could only type single characters, at no more than 15 words per minute? "It's for the safety of the internet!" Or you could only post so may bytes a day to the interwebz, so they don't get clogged with silly cat pictures? Care for that 1A infringement? (Yeah, I know these are sill examples, but....................................<typed with full auto key>)
 

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Has anyone bought any of these triggers or shot one this looks way better then a binary trigger
The exclusive distributor of these copied it. That one IIRC is still for sale. Was it Big Daddy Unlimited? Anyways I don't have one. Don't know if anyone here is stupid enough to admit they have one. I never heard of them until they were being confiscated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Has anyone bought any of these triggers or shot one this looks way better then a binary trigger
Here? You're talking to a group who would just buy stuff off Amazon, or from the Chinese themselves, or spend weeks thinking of spending some money on something that's not really expensive in the big picture... and on a forum ostenibly for those who love budget guns? Ha. Ha. Ha. Most likely no one here has bought one
 
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