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I ran into an interesting article this morning about the ATF illegally hoarding FFL records. I always assumed that any Democratic administration was doing that anyway. But it turns out, it was both better and worse than I presumed. Better because it is not a widespread as I thought. Worse because I did not know they were allowed to retain records at all. Here is the headline:

GAO report: ATF illegally hoarding gun owner information?

The short answer is: It was, but now seems to have changed... I suppose... I guess...

In any case, it is an interesting read if you want to know more about how that whole process works. It seems there are conditions where the government retains that information for a couple of years. They were just stretching the rules in some cases.

Here is the link for those who wish to read the whole thing:

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/08/03/gao-report-atf-illegally-hoarding-gun-owner-information/

The sad part about this is that, when this sort of thing is discovered, no one is ever held accountable. I understand that it might be nothing more than a computer programmer mistake. After all, if you think there are no bugs in your code, you haven't run enough cycles. But then again, it might have been deliberate.

Jed
 

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Seems what GAO found was more due to the inherent bloat of a bureaucracy than intended malice, but that's what GAO was allowed access to; there are areas in different agencies where the Patriot Act, NDAA and other legislation do not allow crystal clear transparency.

As the comment on that piece said, multiple agencies such as the IRS have been weaponized against conservative/libertarian groups and causes, the extent of which will be many years being revealed, so my concerns are focused on what activities may have occurred, or are still occurring in those areas no longer available for independent investigation by the GAO, under auspices of "National" security.

I think the leak early on in Obama's administration that numerous groups such as the NRA, GOA and various militias and such were to be considered as potential national security risks / threats was watershed information, since designation and assignment to various threat levels enable corresponding government action - such as perhaps assignment to lists other than "Terror Watch" and "No Fly" lists.

List that are not publicly discussed, or even the existence of which is not confirmed, perhaps including a "shadow" registry.
 

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How can anyone look at the government murders at Ruby Ridge, or Waco & think that anything the alphabet bureaus does is an honest mistake.
I guarantee they have as complete a set of files as is possible on everybody..........except Moslem terrorists.......but in thier minds there are no innocent citizens.
Trusting any government is the biggest mistake that it is possible to make. Yeah I know it is necessary........doesn't mean we should trust it.:foilhat::foilhat::mad:
 

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Highly Questionable!
"You found a stack of FFL records we should have filed, I mean destroyed. Well I fully agree with you. We need to get to the bott.. Don't worry about those 'empty' boxes, we need to deal with this here stack of records. Well what I think happened is.. Warehouse? The ATF has no warehouse as far as I'm concerned. Please stop changing the subject. These records are an outrage..."
 

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ROLL wif Da MOLE!
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Butch, I meant "accidentally saving" NICS check info.
They WANT a complete database, so any time they save info
is MANDATED to be deleted it is not by chance, accident or
oversight. It is INTENTIONAL. What they are asking for in
that link is:
  1. Permission
  2. Servers and Data Processing
  3. FUNDING!

So they can do MORE, w/o repercussions... :mad:
 

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To me all government, elected or hired, is a snake waiting to strike. We have to have it but it should be kept on a super short leash. Our government thinks they are our boss. Not we the people but we the elite.
 

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To me all government, elected or hired, is a snake waiting to strike. We have to have it but it should be kept on a super short leash. Our government thinks they are our boss. Not we the people but we the elite.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. ^^^
Have you spit on a vet today.
Good thing I took that retirement, I might still be a coiled snake. :D
 

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ROLL wif Da MOLE!
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IMO, Vets, Police, Firefighters and most other public servants are Volunteers. I do not think Butch meant to paint with so broad a brush...
I also think that even a large # of ATF guys are enthusiasts, and it is much better to have them in there than Gun Hating GRABBERS. 2¢
 

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ROLL wif Da MOLE!
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AGENCIES are clearly at the whim of rogue elected officials.
Many of the EO's of the last 7 years are very suspect, and IMO
could be lots worse if the 3-letter boys and girls were not well
versed in the legality of such. Get a bunch of activist progressives
in there, and they will pursue these shady directives with VIGOR. :(
 

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Yeah. I would wager that the Feds have all the information from just about every gun sale, well, at least the ones that were bought from an FFL.

They destroy all the records? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. :rolleyes:
 

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I guess I just watch too much tv. Liberal ass Vice Channel had a show about gun control on and they went to the ATF and the agent flat out said, and showed them, the dozens of containers full of boxes of records from FFL'S that they transfer to microfilm and store in a vault. Then he declared how the online system is so much easier because all of the records go in to protected servers. He said it's not a registry, it's for LEOs to trace firearms used in crimes.
 
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