Ok guys I purchased last week new carry ammo to switch out the aging mag tech ammo I did carry. So I went to the store and asked the guy for federal hydro shock but, they were out and the guy at the counter handed me a box of Winchester Supreme SXT 147gr HP and said that these are just as good and also the heaver bullet is better. So I bought the box went to the range and shot a few and the recoil was less that the WWB I usually shoot so I went home and checked online to see if I could get this and the hydro shocks in bulk and in checking was horrified that I just black talon ammo just renamed SXT but its basically the same as a black talon. So now im worried if I should not carry this because if I would god forbid have to shoot someone and it was found out that I carried black talon ammo it might turn into a huge legal battle. Am I being overly cautious or should I change my ammo
Black talon ammo
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You are fine Black Talon was NEVER outlawed STX is an LEO type so you'r ok use it with confidence I use Winchester silvertips right now when I get back to work i will be switching over to STX 9mm I have tried it in my C9 and it LOVES it I will be going exclusivly to it when I can
G
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·I can't tell you anything about SXT ammo and if a court would look bad on them. But I can say get something other then hydro shock. As HS has been out classed by many ammos right now.
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I find the whole legal aspect of what ammo i'm using to be incredibly retarded. Its ignorance in action. I don't see any problem with using a leo ammo for carry or defense. Thats just me tho!
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What Winchester did was remove the black paint, and rename the ammo to make it sound more politically correct. Just like Monadnock did with the PR-24 which used to be called the Prosecutor.
You are carring Winchester SXT ammo not Black tallons (just look at them they look different). Also as Shooter stated they were never illegal (except in New Jersey where any hollow point is illegal except for on duty LEOs in uniform). As a LEO you are expected to use the most effective tool for the job at hand, including ammunition. If your pistol likes them keep using them. I have no confidence in Hydrashocks in .40 S& W from using them to try to put down car hit deer. It takes at least 3 and usually 4 head shots from less than 10' (yes ten feet) none of which exit the skull, to kill a deer. They are aptly named Hydrasucks in .40 S&W.
Unfortuantly that is what is issued and I'm stuck with.
Take Care and Be Safe.
You are carring Winchester SXT ammo not Black tallons (just look at them they look different). Also as Shooter stated they were never illegal (except in New Jersey where any hollow point is illegal except for on duty LEOs in uniform). As a LEO you are expected to use the most effective tool for the job at hand, including ammunition. If your pistol likes them keep using them. I have no confidence in Hydrashocks in .40 S& W from using them to try to put down car hit deer. It takes at least 3 and usually 4 head shots from less than 10' (yes ten feet) none of which exit the skull, to kill a deer. They are aptly named Hydrasucks in .40 S&W.
Unfortuantly that is what is issued and I'm stuck with.
Take Care and Be Safe.
I still like my hydrashocks for my RIA 1911a1. I tried the ranger stuff that Gman and a bunch of others here have suggested were better than HS's, and even if they do expand better, the doubled the size of my groups across the board. They also left what I would describe as flakes of the bullet jackets in my guns. (tried them in my glock 36 also, with the same results for groupings and flakes). The SXT ammo should not cause any extra leagle problems if you ever had to use them, but more important than any hype or suggestions you get here, find what you and your gun likes, prove it by shooting a bunch of it with no malfunctions, nd stick with that load (at least till you find something better, which will happen from time to time)
Winchester makes the Ranger brand of Ammunition and it is very effective, it is what I load in all my carry guns. There is a difference, Winchester makes the STX and then they make the Ranger STX which uses different bullets. The STX is not as effective as its Ranger version so be careful which type you buy. I have never had the flaking problem with the Rangers and some people have a harder time shooting the Ranger line as it is loaded a bit hot which relates to heavier recoil.
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I don't know how they would do for hunting or putting down game(like that hit deer) but I've had excellent performance from Hornady XTP's in my .40
Some of my reloads that are hotter then the ranger stuf and it is still accurate, I don't know why my guns don't like it, they just don't.
On a slight side note, I even tried some of the ranger 380 in my bersa, and discovered what appeared to be copper flakes left in the action there also. But the gun loved it, very accurate, very reliable. I just don't trust them to expand out of a 380. When I go on days off next, I will have to shoot some more of it and try and get some pics of the flakes.
Like I said "find what you and your gun likes, prove it by shooting a bunch of it with no malfunctions, nd stick with that load (at least till you find something better, which will happen from time to time)". If it is the STX or the ranger stuff, then run with that by all means. Just don't bet your life on any cartridge untill it has proven itself in your individual gun.
On a slight side note, I even tried some of the ranger 380 in my bersa, and discovered what appeared to be copper flakes left in the action there also. But the gun loved it, very accurate, very reliable. I just don't trust them to expand out of a 380. When I go on days off next, I will have to shoot some more of it and try and get some pics of the flakes.
Like I said "find what you and your gun likes, prove it by shooting a bunch of it with no malfunctions, nd stick with that load (at least till you find something better, which will happen from time to time)". If it is the STX or the ranger stuff, then run with that by all means. Just don't bet your life on any cartridge untill it has proven itself in your individual gun.
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I carry silvertips myself and having used them to kill a couple car-hit deer (9mm) with one shot, i trust them.
SW
SW
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Those things look wicked in .380... wonder if it will drop the plate at the range when hitting center mass... i could only knock down the plate with headshots with the golden sabres and magtechs... 
G
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·Black Talon Reechoed ....
I have decided never to use black talon ammo after seeing it's effect on a heavy duty 55 gallon drum at about 10 yards. Out of 4 rounds fired 2 had no penetration and reechoed off the drum, while a 38 revolver with no special ammo penetrated through and through.
PS: It was all slow fire, so the drum sway if any was minimal.
I have decided never to use black talon ammo after seeing it's effect on a heavy duty 55 gallon drum at about 10 yards. Out of 4 rounds fired 2 had no penetration and reechoed off the drum, while a 38 revolver with no special ammo penetrated through and through.
PS: It was all slow fire, so the drum sway if any was minimal.
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Re: Black Talon Reechoed ....
2. most criminals wont be wearing a steel drum if you need to shoot them.
3. using a steel drum to test penetration and expansion of ammo designed for a soft target isnt something id brag about and then trash the ammo.
SW
1. Most 9mm hollow point WONT penetrate a steel drum regardless of type. a 38 is significantly more powerful when it comes to punching holes in steel.
2. most criminals wont be wearing a steel drum if you need to shoot them.
3. using a steel drum to test penetration and expansion of ammo designed for a soft target isnt something id brag about and then trash the ammo.
SW
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1,792 Posts
9mm ball ammo penetrated the burn barrel very well. The 12 gauge made holes much faster. We told mom it needed that many holes to breath so the fire wouldn smuther and go out. At least we were partly truethfull. It did need a few holes
Awwhh,were do all the good times go??????????
Awwhh,were do all the good times go??????????
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correction- 9mm HOLLOW POINT ammo. my mistake.
SW
SW
G
Guest
·Anyway, I was not trying to trash the ammo ....
My post about the talon was not a test it was an observation. But, it made me stop and think hard about what I wanted to use in a weapon.
Understanding now that most gunfights take place at very close range has really got me thinking even harder and looking for just the right ammo.
After reading many articles on the this forum and one who is without much previous knowledge of firearms issues I'll probably have a lot of stupid sounding questions and some stuff that seems a little out of context about certain issues.
I'm really glad to have come across this forum and there are so many post to read .... wow!
PS: Anyway, I was not trying to trash the ammo, I was simply saying that this was my observation; and based on that personal knowledge I don't think I would use it for myself. There are many reasons why. One, is that I would like to be able to punch through a variety of possible and logical obstacles to hit anyone attacking me are my wife.
My post about the talon was not a test it was an observation. But, it made me stop and think hard about what I wanted to use in a weapon.
Understanding now that most gunfights take place at very close range has really got me thinking even harder and looking for just the right ammo.
After reading many articles on the this forum and one who is without much previous knowledge of firearms issues I'll probably have a lot of stupid sounding questions and some stuff that seems a little out of context about certain issues.
I'm really glad to have come across this forum and there are so many post to read .... wow!
PS: Anyway, I was not trying to trash the ammo, I was simply saying that this was my observation; and based on that personal knowledge I don't think I would use it for myself. There are many reasons why. One, is that I would like to be able to punch through a variety of possible and logical obstacles to hit anyone attacking me are my wife.
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Cover is cover!! If the BG is behind cover he isn't going to be very effective against you! Just keep him there until the police arrive. Don't try to shoot through the cover. If he is popping up and shooting at you try and watch his movements most people do so in a pattern and you can be ready for his next move. Of course you should be behind cover yourself
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They taught us in the military that shooting at your enemies cover was wasting ammo.
SW
SW
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Thats why we have grenades both hand held and rocket propelled :lol:
I agree shooting at cover is a waste unless you are doing it to keep the BG's head down while your partner flanks him.
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