Bottom Dollar 100 Yard Challenge -- Hi Point 995 TS vs. SKS vs. AK 47

Discussion in 'Hi-Point Reviews & Range Reports' started by PaulBL, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. PaulBL

    PaulBL Member

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    Today I was able to go to a Forest Service outdoor range for my own 100 yard challenge of my bottom dollar rifles. In fairness to the weapons, the AK and SKS may need a bit more tweaking of their sights, and many of you know how hard it is to get those sights spot on. The challenge was 100 yards, iron sights as the rifles come with, after tweaking all the sights at 25 yards and then at 100 yards. All ammo was the worst, cheapest Tula steel that WalMart sells. All shooting was done seated with my support elbow on the bench but no bipods on any of the rifles. I have run a couple hundred rounds through the AK and the SKS; don't know how many were run before. The Hi Point has run roughly 1,000 rounds. They all get a basic clean and lube after each use but I have not broken any of them down for the major cleaning. Sorry that the pictures are all turned 90 degrees but that happened in the upload.

    And the winner was -- the AK. That actually surprised me, because it was very difficult to get the front sight adjustment correct. But it has a narrow post and minimal recoil, and the one I got has a Tapco G2 trigger which is a huge improvement on stock. The AK cost me $400 used with Tapco and UTG furniture.

    The SKS came in second. I am having trouble getting the sight adjusted correctly. You can see the tight group to the right and the tight group at the center from slightly different adjustments. If I could superimpose those groups, the SKS would be sensational. The SKS cost me $400 used with both Tapco and original mags and furniture, and a 4x scope.

    The Hi Point lost. Or did it? Given the 9mm ammo, I would say it actually won. Yes, there was a spread at 100 yards, but there was one near center bull and the spread was only 6 to 8 inches with the original sights and the cheapest ammo available. I was surprised how much recoil the 995 has considering the pistol cartridge. Is the 995TS worthy as a SHTF defensive weapon? I would say within 100 yards a definite yes. That target is a heck of a lot smaller than a human torso, and a lot harder to see at 100 yards. Last fall I ran the Hi Point at 50 yards and had essentially the same accuracy as the SKS at the same distance. Meaning 3 inch groups. Oh yes, the Hi Point cost $250 plus shipping brand new.

    Next challenge for the AK and the SKS: I have a red dot and the 4x scope and I would like to see how they do with those. I would imagine a good bit better.

    Next challenge for the Hi Point: I have 124 grain NATO ammo and a few boxes of Hornady Steel Match hollow points, both much higher quality than the Tula. I got great groups at 25 yards off hand with the Hornady and I would like to see how both of these do at 100 yards. I don't see the point of testing the scope or the red dot on the Hi Point. I don't want to remove the original sights and I can't see the optics improving the accuracy as much as better ammo.

    Next bottom dollar purchase? Maybe a Mosin. A group of young guys ran a couple of Mosins down the way from me. Good Lord were they accurate. One guy was hitting soda cans at 100 yards with the original leaf sights. Better than a lot of people with AR's and scopes. Wish I could see as well as him but he has a lot of years advantage.

    Bottom dollar bottom line -- anyone who says that the Hi Point carbine is a spray and pray gun has not tried it out.
     

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  2. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    This isn't surprising at all. The AK & sks were made to shoot 100 yard targets on a regular basis, the HP was not.
     

  3. PaulBL

    PaulBL Member

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    Exactly. For a gun that is not "supposed" to be a 100 yard target rifle it did quite well in the hands of a non-expert shooter.
     
  4. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Yeah, but at 75 yards with an optic on it.....

    [​IMG]
     
  5. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    Army shoots better.;-)
     
  6. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    We'll meet up eventually and you can try to prove that.
     
  7. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Maybe if you used a 5.56, Broncho-Boy :p
     
  8. RedRaptor22

    RedRaptor22 Member

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    There are some good videos on youtube of the HP's up against high dollar carbines that are actually comparable ie: same rounds, and the results were as expected, well if you're a highpoint owner that is. They really are just about as accurate as you can get for the barrel length and cartridges.
     
  9. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    Can I play too? :D

    .
     
  10. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

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    Kind of surprised me too. Most AK rifles I have had experience with are Uber reliable but somewhat laking in the accuracy department.
     
  11. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    But of course...
     
  12. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    Rolls eyes......99% of the "lack of accuracy" is user induced. They were designed for use up to 300 yards to be able to hit center mass, and can easily do that. It was never intended as a 1000yd riifle, nor does it fire a "long range"cartridge. But use it as intended and it amazingly does exactly what it was meant to do.
     
  13. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    Rach that ain't fair to us little mortals to have to shoot against Flash. But if we beat him do we get to pick one gun from him :-D
     
  14. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    My SKS will beat your 995TS...easy.

    * Probably not with me shooting it *

    :D
     
  15. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    But if he wins, you have to give HIM a gun, of HIS Choice?!?!?!!! :D
     
  16. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    If moonz loses, flash gets evil.
     
  17. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

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    The average AK47 is 4 to 6 MOA. That is well documented. You might not like it, but there it is.

    The AK74 is much better, averaging 2 to 4 MOA. Lots of improvements made to the AK74, many to boost accuracy. Only about 50% of the parts are interchangeable between the two. Pretty sure through Russians think it is better too, at least since 1979 when it was adopted to replace the AK47.
     
  18. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    All perfectly copy and pasted information. But noone was comparing a 74 to a 47. Your correct it is "more accurate" on paper, but not without sacrifes. And its definitely not more popular. The AK47 still remains in use on probably a 10 to 1 ratio worldwide to the 74 (a very low estimate i imagine). That increased accuracy was achieved by rechambering to a smaller, lighter round much closer to the 5.56 cartridge the US uses. It did make for a slightly more precise rifle with mildly longer range (600 yards is claimed as center mass accurate). The downside was sugnificantly less stopping power.
    If you want to be technical, soviet stats show the following:
    Accuracy (16.3" barrel)
    2-6 MOA for the AK47 1-4 MOA for the AK74. 300 yards is what the soviet tests were mainly done at.
    And of course many parts aren't interchangeable, different size ammunition calls for different internals, that's a no brainer.
    But again, no one was comparing the two. And everything i stated about the 47 is still 100% accurate, and of actual relevance to the original topic. I might know a little thing or two on the subject of AKs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  19. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

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    Talon, not saying you don't know anything about AK's, we're just having a friendly disagreement about the accuracy of the AK47.

    It's been 1980 or 81 since I have handled them. During a class about knowing our enemies weapons. The reference about the AK74 was meant to make a point that the Russians themselves thought they were outclassed, accuracy and range wise. They went to a rifle that was more accurate and increased their range by some 200 meters.

    Agreed that the 47 has better penetration capability than the 5.45 round. Agreed that the AK47 is the most prolific military rifle out there today. How many were made? Some 10 million? I even agree that it is an effective combat weapon.

    But that it is accurate? Obviously it is accurate enough for what it is, but 6 MOA is 18 or more inches at 300 meters/330 yards. Just dosent excite me. And no, I'm not standing out there at 300 meters just to see if one will hit me! :blush:
     
  20. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    We're all good man. I tend to rant when AKs get brought up. :cool:
    You won't even try for just one shot? ;)