Buffalo Bore via 4595?

Discussion in 'Hi-Point Carbines' started by Martinus, Dec 18, 2014.

  1. Martinus

    Martinus Member

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    Just curious if anyone has tried any of Buffalo Bore's ammo through the 4595?

    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=381

    Granted, its $$-y, and a steady diet of them would probably not be good, but... a mag or two of these loaded up, and ready for battle as HD rounds in suitable environs....hmm

    Buddy of mine locally manufactures AR lowers, billet, I think he has a chrony and a decent test range..If I can score some of these loads at some point, Ill try and see if he can let me use the chrony and range, and test them out. If so, Ill post results in here w/ pics. and maybe some penetration tests at various distances...
     
  2. Johnny_B_Goode

    Johnny_B_Goode Member

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    I do not care about velocity. I want to know if the bullet does not over expand and fail to penetrate. After about 10 minutes of study at ballistics by the inch you can just estimate velocity from your carbine and be less than 100 fps off, most of the time. I do appreciate your effort, don't take me wrong.

    There are tons of information about velocity from carbines online but there is precious little information about how a given bullet will expand at carbine velocity.
    http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/
     

  3. Martinus

    Martinus Member

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    well these arent JHPs- these are FN cast bullets. so "expansion" isnt an issue on these, as much.
    as far as JHPs via carbines go, unless using bonded ones, like Gold Dots, I think most JHP tend to over-expand or fragment at velocities above pistol use. I plan to test those, soon, as well, as I still have some 230 GDs around, just to see.
    But my needs, out where I am, are a bit different than many folks. Im in a semi-rural area, with lots of trees, brush, fencing, etc. through which I may have to penetrate out to a distance (50-75m) to stop an attack, vs. hunting use, or "over-penetration" concerns that others have.
    Now, I know some folks will see "50-75m" in a defensive shooting and claim it less-than-likely, but out here, it has already happened. A few yrs back some folks had the idea to attempt a home-invasion here. My dog spotted them coming from a ways off, and began barking to alert me, and they opened fire with shotguns from about 50m or so, killing my dog. At the time, all I had with which to return fire was a .410 shotgun-which was anything but effective=ballistics-wise, but hearing the return fire that they didnt expect did get them to break off their attack. Hence, my desire for a PCC carbine with which to reach such distances, and be able to penetrate-without having to resort to full-up rifle rounds-which can potentially travel too far, in the event of a miss, and do more harm to someone other than my intended targets, and with slightly less risk of richochet-(which, if any of you have observed 5.56/7.62 tracer fire knows happens a LOT with higher-velocity rounds like those).

    Also, there's this "myth" that FMJ/TMJ doesnt expand or deform- one I can dispell with my own testing, just from .45 sidearms. These rounds pictured, are CCI brass/ and Speer Lawman .45 in 230 grn. fired from my PT845 into denim, wood, and sheet steel from 25 feet or so- Granted, expansion is not as great as a JHP, but they do indeed deform, depending on angle of hits, etc. and tend to tumble upon deformation.
     

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  4. Martinus

    Martinus Member

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    I also have an 870 pump in the arsenal, which I load with PDX-1 slugs, that can reach out to the desired distances, but not as accurately, I feel, as I can with .45 via the 4595.
    These are the tested slugs, after firing into the same media @ 25ft. -
     

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  5. Martinus

    Martinus Member

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    The slugs squash out fairly flat- but contrary to a lot of folk's beliefs, they dont plow through things the way folks think. Once they hit something hard, they squash out, penetrate, and then fall to the ground about 1ft or so behind the object, they DO however dump a LOT of energy on impact.
     

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  6. Martinus

    Martinus Member

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    Now for some irony- .25acp. A round everyone dumps on as "weak" or ineffective, yet has probably taken more lives in gunfights than 9mm or .40 ever will. And here's one reason why- and it defies most logic, and what most specs "on-paper" should suggest- These 2 recovered bullets were the only 2 out of 6, that I could find-after firing into the same media as my .45 and PDX1 tests. They penetrated everything the .45 and the PDX did, and then some. They are GOLD DOT JHP short barrel .25 acp rounds. In my water jug tests, they did not expand, but penetrated 4 layers of denim, a 1/2" pine board, all 6 water jugs, the phone book behind them, and another 1/2" pine board behind the phone book. these 2 rounds fell out shortly behind the backstop, the other 4 continued on into the forest, never to be seen again...

    Many yrs ago, I was shot in the right hand by a .25 (as a bystander to a shooting)-the round entered between my middle finger and ring finger, along the back edge of my hand- it went between the knuckles, and rode along the top of the back of the hand's bone just beneath the skin,and came to a stop just above my wrist. Not a fatal hit, by any means, but- that tiny round did a ton of nerve and tendon damage to my hand. Now, some 30+ yrs later, not a day goes by that I dont recall having been hit with it- some days my hand is nearly useless (cold/damp days) due to the hand locking up, other days only a bit painful/achy...but...damn if I dont remember it every single day.
     

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  7. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    niiiiiice!




    PS Edit:
    Please Note: I was commenting on the retrieved lead expansion, not the fact you were SHOT! :eek: That had to SUCK!
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  8. Martinus

    Martinus Member

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    And, since Im on the subject, I'll share this one:

    .38 spl. 125 grn. semi-jacketed from a 4in. revolver from about 15 feet, fired at me long long ago. Impacted my bent, left-elbow, just forward of the joint along the outside of the arm-deflected off my elbow, exited out the back outside edge of my arm, just behind the bend of my elbow. Hit a wall of a bldg I was next to (roughly 2 ft), bounced-off, landed next to the outside edge of my left shoe. I recovered the slug, and my own spent .45 shell-casing, and went and got my arm stitched-up.

    At the time, I had thought I'd only been grazed,but once we got the bleeding slowed-down, and my arm washed off enough to see- it was evident that it had entered, skipped, and exited (separate entry/exit wounds).
    I cannot deny it hurt like all-hell. Felt like someone had whacked my elbow with a sledge-hammer, and for days after I couldnt move my arm/elbow, and it bled a LOT. But, it did not expand, and it didnt do enough damage, at the time, to take me out of action. A hit to a more vital area, Im sure would have been deadly, but..some nerve damage has resulted from this hit, also, that still bothers me from time to time- but oddly, not near as much as the .25 to the hand does.

    Crappy pics, due to lighting/cell phone cam, but..you can get the idea.
     

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  9. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    And now we're curious as to why you've been shot twice....;
     
  10. Martinus

    Martinus Member

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    Simple. Wrong time, wrong place. I wasnt the intended target in either shooting, when they occured. Its the wonderful sort of luck with which I've been cursed most of my life.
    I'd be perfectly happy to go the rest of my days without being fired upon, or having to fire back, but.. my own experiences havent given me much hope of that. So, I plan, equip and train for the eventualities.
     
  11. Martinus

    Martinus Member

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    To clarify a bit more (was in rush and had to be somewhere earlier).
    1st shooting (.25acp) was when I was 16. Was one of several dozen people in a crowd at a boardwalk watching 4th of July fireworks. Some guy walked up. drew a Raven and unloaded into the crowd. 2 guys in front of me in the crowd went down, and before I could even figure out "wtf" I was hit, and then a gal standing to my right-front was hit in the left side. Didnt know the shooter, didnt know the other people in the crowd who were shot, so I dont know who this guy's intended target was, if anyone. Given the look of the 2 guys who went down, and the look of the shooter, I've always figured was probably a drug/gang thing.

    2nd shooting was a little different, and was a little over a yr. after the 1st one. Because of the 1st one, I'd acquired an old Llama .45 1911 clone from a friend, and made sure to carry it with me, anytime I had to go into that part of town again. And it's a good thing I did.
    Went to pick up a buddy of mine who worked late/closing shift at a fast-food place in that crappy part of town, who needed a ride home. I was standing out front of the door waiting for him to finish locking-up, when some guy came running around the corner from the cross-street, bleeding from the chest/side, and collapsed, face-down on the sidewalk about 6-8 feet away.
    At the time, I didnt assume it had anything to do with a shooting, as I'd heard no gunshots or anything, -told my bud to call 911, and went to see if I could help this guy out, somehow.
    I didnt even get to him yet, when another guy came tearing around the corner, but with a revolver, and put 2 shots into the guy's back . i drew mine, and he saw me do so, and swung that revolver towards me- we both fired at roughly the same time. He hit my elbow (i was holding that big-for me at the time-.45 with 2 hands, so I guess my elbow was in the way of his shot, as he was shooting left-handed), and I hit him-i think-in the upper left chest or shoulder area. He ducked back around the corner he'd come from, and ran off down the street, out of my view.
    I wasnt inclined to chase after him or anything so..but, he left a fair amount of blood on the sidewalk and the corner of the wall...

    Checked on the guy he'd shot- dead- made sure my buddy had called 911, gathered our things, and hauled ass out of there. Right, wrong or otherwise, at the time I felt I had little choice.
    For one, I was not yet of age to be legally carrying that pistol. 2, I was one of only 2 white guys for miles around in that part of town, late at night on a weekend. I kept trying to imagine that conversation with any cops having any positive outcome for me,and couldnt see it happening, so I didnt bother to stick around to find out.
    3, I wasnt sure how bad my arm was, I just knew it was bleeding a lot, and hurt like hell, and I wanted to get the heck out of there and get it worked on.
    4- there was the concern that this guy might come back with a dozen buddies toting Tec-9s and AKs before any cops could arrive, anyway.

    So, there it is. Did what I felt I had to, under those circumstances, at that time, as a 17 yr old kid. I have no idea whatever became of the guy with the revolver. I didnt know him or the guy he shot. So..
     
  12. Hot-Shot

    Hot-Shot Member

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    No plus loads for me

    I would not use any HV plus loads in any gun I own a guy at the range was shooting plus loads in his Glock 9mm and cracked the barrel rapid firing
     
  13. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    But that's a Glock......HP's are stronger guns ......:)
     
  14. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    +100 SwagZy!

    Yes, Hot Shot, Glocks have WELL KNOWN Barrel Issues, mainly unsupported chamber issues. Hence the popularity of aftermarket barrels for "Blocks" :D
     
  15. Johnny_B_Goode

    Johnny_B_Goode Member

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    Only the 40 cal Glocks have an unsupported chamber, My G19 has a fully supported chamber, There are at least 300,000 40 cal Glocks in service at this moment just in the US by various police departments and alphabet agencies. None of those officers will see anything you claim.

    I shoot in IDPA matches that have over 60 competitors. There are plenty of 40 cal Glocks in service in those matches. Yes, there are some 40 cal cases that are bulged but none of the cases are bulged so badly they couldn't be resized with a hand press.

    You hear of all kinds of bad things happening to Glock pistols because there are more Glocks than any other brand, not to mention all the aftermarket parts people put in Glock pistols just for the sake of doing it. People buy aftermarket barrels so they can shoot cast ammo in a Glock. I have probably shot 500,000 9mm cartridges. I have never shot a cast 9mm bullet. By your logic a Yugo is more dependable than a Ford or a Chevy because the total number of Yugo's have less breakdowns. Of course Fords and Chevy's are going to have more total breakdowns. There are at least 100 fords or chevy's for every yugo.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2014
  16. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Why do ANY Glocks have unsupported chambers?
    Most firearms have fully supported chambers, afaik. Colt Delta Elite in 10mm does not, however...

    Might be linking 2 unrelated barrel issues, but it's still a Glock Barrel Question.

    I find varying reports of "fully supported chambers" for Glocks, it's best to check the barrel ramps before purchase of any brand that has had these issues. I'm not at all against the "G" series guns, but I do heavily prefer brand "S" if it is a poly weapon ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2014
  17. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Most of those officers won't shoot more than 100 rounds a year.

    How many IDPA shooters use aftermarket barrels? A very large percentage, I bet.

    Regardless...you don't need to defend the Glock, it's a good gun. It's just not as perfect as the fanbois say it is.;)
     
  18. Johnny_B_Goode

    Johnny_B_Goode Member

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    I bet very few IDPA or competitive shooters use an aftermarket barrel in a Glock. The only people that use an aftermarket barrel in a Glock are people who think cast bullets are a good idea in high pressure pistol rounds. Most people who compete are experienced enough to buy a pistol they like. I do not understand people who buy a pistol to change everything about it. If I didn't like the trigger, barrel and sights I would buy a pistol with the trigger, barrel and sights I wanted.
     
  19. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    I'm with that 100%

    But then again, the Glock has a huge aftermarket support, and people do like to customize. Look at our HPs! NO aftermarket support to speak of, and we see tons of custom HPs and they are very well done!
     
  20. There is absolutely no need to change from the stock barrel to run lead, I'm pretty sure i've over a 1,000 rounds without cleaning them with no build up or issues of any kind.

    Alot of competition people mod glocks for a ton of different reasons but I'm guessing an aftermarket barrel would be more for accuracy than anything else or to add a comp.

    I believe all of the massively unsupported chamber issues were resolved at this point. But owning both a c9 and a glock 17 I can tell you the c9 barrel is twice as strong but the glock has it everywhere else.

    I never understood the glock fanboyism it makes no sense to me at this point there are a 100 guns just as good and quite a few better, it might have made sense in 1989.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2014