Buying a gun? Ruling makes it illegal to buy firearm for someone else

Discussion in '2nd Amendment' started by Hermitt, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. Hermitt

    Hermitt Hey! Get Off My Lawn! Member


    So, what this means that a gun can no longer be given away as a gift? :confused:
     
  2. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    Unless part of a will, I don't believe you could ever "gift" a gun. Legal transfer, yes, if both parties are of legal age and legally eligible, and not with prior intent of purchase for transfer.
     

  3. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Another way to do it, because I have done this before, was when I paid for the firearm ahead of time, but never took possession. The "gifting" happened at the FFL where my cousin's surprise was filling out the paperwork and taking possession of it after clearing the check.
     
  4. SWO1

    SWO1 Member

    I think ya'll are reading into the ruling. It applies to "Straw Purchases" and answering YES to question 11a on the purchase form. If you answer NO the excemption on page 4 states that if answered NO it will be as a gift. I have purchased 3 in the last 1 or so and answered NO to 11a. They were GIFTS. My PURCHASE WENT THRU IN LESS AND 30 seconds as all mine have.

    Read 11a excemption .......

    CHICKEN LITTLE STRIKES AGAIN !!!
     
  5. Hermitt

    Hermitt Hey! Get Off My Lawn! Member

    This makes you wonder.... how many guys have 'bought' a gun for their wife or girlfriend, or how many women have 'bought' a gun for their guy?

    There are certainly many places, like here in Idaho, where there is no 'transfer' paperwork legally required for a face to face transfer. So if I feel like giving one of my guns to a friend or neighbor or family member, all I have to do is hand it to them.
     
  6. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    Same in IN. and a person to person transfer is perfectly legal, but buying for the sole purpose on a transfer, isnt. Ill have to check on the paperwork listed a few posts up about a ffl transfered gift. Never heard of that being done. Interesting.
     
  7. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    And amazingly enough, these asshats can't or won't prosecute those who buy guns to sell to criminals (Eric holder)
     
  8. Hermitt

    Hermitt Hey! Get Off My Lawn! Member

  9. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member


    The two women involved got probation, and the guy sentenced to 7 years is already out on probation... But they'll try to hold the manufacturer liable for everyone else's crimes... Douchebag hypocrisy at its best.
     
  10. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,493
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    Sounds like MKS really was doing some illegal stuff. Based on what I read there, MKS and Brown broke some laws, and did it big. Now, there may be more to the story, so I'm not calling for blood. Yet. But I've never been impressed with MKS, at all.

    As for the OP...come on guys, get with the program. The ATF has specifically said you can buy gifts for your kids, and your wife. Maybe your own parents. But it ends there, and all of that should be within the state.

    It has NEVER been totally ok to buy guns for uncles, girl friends, cousins, or anyone outside the immediate family, not as a gift, nor as a purchase go-between. Technically, yeah, it can be done as a gift, in your state, with legal gun owners, using that thing SWO1 mentioned. But if you gift a GF who has a felony you didn't know about, you've committed a crime. If you buy for an uncle in Cali that can't buy the gun, or for someone in any other state and move it into his state without an FFL...you commit the crime. In fact, acting as a buyer with the intent to SELL to a specific buyer in any way without an FFL is illegal, as the court says in the OP case.
     
  11. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,493
    10,694
    NE Utah
    And that's fine, it's totally different from the court case.

    I buy .22 rifles and gift them to my nieces and nephews and grand kids. But I am the owner and will be the owner, until I decide which gun to give away.

    Within my state, I can do as you say. If they are out of my state, we need to use an FFL.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  12. SWO1

    SWO1 Member

    The GIFTS were not a FFL transfer. I answered NO to 11A. I purchased the firearms with my money and the Federal check was on me. No info is required for the "GIFTED PERSON" . You however are held to make sure the person getting the gift can LEGALY own a firearm. In Missouri there is NO registration for Pistol or Long gun, no permits required. A person of ANY AGE can own a pistol or long gun in Missouri, only restriction is for purchase of Ammo. 18 for long gun and 21 for pistol.

    Just be truthful and make sure the gifted person is legal also. Now some states have a different requirement, i.e. North Carolina where my son lives. He has to have a Pistol permit (the permit is $5 and covers 5 handguns with NO registration) and you must make sure they have one to gift a pistol, nothing for long guns.
     
  13. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    now I could be wrong, but I think you can buy pistol caliber ammo if you are under 21 if it is for a rifle in MO..... Feel free to correct me if I am.
     
  14. On the MKS lawsuit, sounds like ATF is to blame too. Every dealer is required to send a form into ATF when a person buys more than 1 handgun per week. One or two forms on a person shouldn't raise a red flag, but the multiple forms these folks had to have generated would be like sending up the Bat Signal!

    And gifting guns is still legal, the transaction in question in the SCOTUS case was not a gift, the Uncle sent a check to him BEFORE the purchase, he was essentially acting as his purchasing agent, and lied on the form. The lie was what he was charged with.

    And Fed law only sez a person cannot transfer to someone they know or reasonably believe is a prohibited person. If an unknown conviction got the seller/gifter in trouble, then every dealer would be liable if the NICS database lacked a conviction record and approved a felon by mistake.
     
  15. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    Yeah. Someone here, don't recall who off the top of my head, got a visit from the ATF for buying several guns in a short period of time..... So where was the red flag on these asshats.....
     
  16. Unless some nanny state (like Kali?) forbids it on a state level, fed law sez "dual use ammo" that can be used in a long gun as well as a handgun can be sold to 18 year olds if they state it is to be used in a rifle. At one time, maybe they still do, when buying ammo at walmart they ask if some calibers are to be used in a rifle or handgun for that very reason. Say "Machine Gun" just to confuse and scare the hell out of them! :p
     
  17. but a gun like it is for you. Give it to whoever is eligible that is your intended recipient.

    Make it very clear the gun is only on loan, for 99 years.

    It is not illegal to lend a firearm.
     
  18. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,493
    10,694
    NE Utah
    Unless you lend it to someone who paid for you to buy it. Yeah, it's semantics. But that's what all law is.;)
     
  19. SWO1

    SWO1 Member

    At places like Wal-Mart and other big box stores when ammo is rang up a screen comes up asking if its for Rifle or Pistol. If you look to be under 21 SOMETIMES they ask, mostly they don't. If asked if I'm 21 I say "not any more" ..... :p With Contenders and other pistol platforms that shoot Rifle Ammo it's really another law that HAS NO REAL PURPOSE.
     
  20. Maybe everyone understands the law differently. but my understanding was at the federal level. You may purchase a firearm for ANYONE that can legally own one. so I could buy a gift for a buddy not just a family member. provided they are legally allowed to own a gun. Now some states may have rules against this. But I'm not aware of any of the normal states with those laws. only the usual suspects, NY,CA, NJ. etc (They might not even have them i just expect them to)