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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As we know, Hi-Point firearms are generally rated for vastly overpressure cartridges, due to the immensely sturdy construction. One could theoretically take any .40S&W cartridge and notch the power up 30% and it'd be fine. But here's my question...given that we're not only working with a sturdier frame but also a much longer barrel, 16.5" for the 995 and 17.5" for the 4095, could we not also mess with powders to increase the power even more? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd been told that, generally, if you have the appropriate amount of barrel length, a slower-burning powder will get more velocity while keeping the pressure the same?
So I'm wondering if anyone has developed any carbine-specific loads that are not only loaded to +P+ pressures but are also using a slower-burning powder that burns through most/all the barrel length? And if not, maybe we can start crackin'! Sadly, I don't have a loader for .40S&W at the moment, just a Lee Loader in 7.62x54r, but a hand press and some .40S&W dies are on the list of things to get next.
 

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The longer barrel length of the 995 will make reloads that you've tweaked for the C9 perform totally differently. I found out the hard way, from experience. Right now I am in the process of developing a load that will work as well in the carbine as the loads for my pistol. Some of our other reloaders will chime in on this

From my research the carbine will benefit from a slower burning powder. But any powder will give more velocity in a carbine vs a pistol. There is no carbine specific load data that I can find for 9mm as all published data is for pistol.

At the present time Silicon Wolverene is, IMHO the premier reloader for carbine on our forum. He has been nice enough to share load data he has developed with other members.

For safety sake and per our rules remember no load data can be published in open forum. All load data must be shared between members by PM.
 

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I have found that using Blue Dot I get an extra 250 fps out of my 995 over what I can get out of my Ruger P95. Any slower of a powder and you just can't get enough of it in the case. I just use the regular pressure load listed in the manual. Don't have a 4095 so can't help you with that.

Mike
 

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glue dot is also my preferred load. its abotu the right burn rate for a carbine barrel in this aplication. you also have to seat teh bullet out for a little longer OAL for positive feeding and crimp a little tighter than normal. id work up the load that best suits your carbine a bit at a time. it took me about three months of fiddlingot get mine 100%.

SW
 

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with 40 S&W the standard load is already nearly maximum pressure for the round. there is no SAMMI spec for +P or +P+ in 40 S&W. hot rodding it has resulted in KBs and other problems. i dont have a load for carbines in 40 S&W as i havent worked one up yet.

SW
 

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with 40 S&W the standard load is already nearly maximum pressure for the round. there is no SAMMI spec for +P or +P+ in 40 S&W. hot rodding it has resulted in KBs and other problems.
SW
What he said! 40 s&w is already a fairly hot round. I don't think I would increase it by 1/3, as OP suggested.
 

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10mm is the parent round of 40 S&W and thats about as hot as it gets. 10mm is alittle more forgiving because of the extra case capacty but you dont want to push either too hard or youll have an explosion.

SW
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So that just leaves us with switching to a slower-burning powder, loaded to give the same pressure.
Still, Hi-Point's sturdiness can't count for nothing, can it? I mean, that absolutely massive bolt does more than just let the guns use simple blowback mechanism with more powerful cartridges. Could we risk overpressuring it by just 5% or 10%? Sure, that's way more than a normal gun could handle...but the Hi-Point's are huge slabs of steel of zamak-3. Does that count for anything?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I would also like to note I'm trying to get myself or anyone else to do anything dangerous. I only work within the bounds of what's safe. My thoughts were simply that what's "safe" in a Hi-Point is probably more punishing than it is with other weapons in the same chambering.
 

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with 40 S&W and its history of KB problems i dont push it. i load nice mild 180 gr rounds. 10mm i do hot rod a little for steel silhouette shooting but that was a very carefully developed load.

SW
 

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using quickload software shows that power pistol would be a better cannidate for the 40 s&w. blue dot doesn't even get close to maxing out pressures. not enough case capacity. max saami loads show with power pistol you can get 1650fps with a 155gr and 1400fps with a 180gr bullet @35000psi even backed down to 29,500psi your looking at 1560fps with a 155gr and 1350 w/180gr. both around a 95% load density. win 231 powder at the same 29,500psi your down to 1350/155gr and 1170fps/180gr ~75%load density. unique isn't that bad of a powder either only about 50-100fps drop.

remember this is just software, not real world numbers. although I have found that it's not far off as long as you put the right info in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hmm...as far as case volume goes, I know Berry's makes a hollow-base round-nose bullet in .401 caliber. Would that make any meaningful difference?

Note: A quick search online reveals that the hollow-base actually does effect the pressure a noticeable degree. One of my first hits was of a guy using the same bullet-type in .45ACP, was having powder-combustion issues because the hollow base lowered the pressure significantly enough to affect it. A worry with using Berry's bullets though, is that being merely plated and not jacketed, with such high velocities, like the 1650fps previously mentioned, the plating might simply tear off and initiate leading of the rifling.
 

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using quickload software shows that power pistol would be a better cannidate for the 40 s&w. blue dot doesn't even get close to maxing out pressures. not enough case capacity. max saami loads show with power pistol you can get 1650fps with a 155gr and 1400fps with a 180gr bullet @35000psi even backed down to 29,500psi your looking at 1560fps with a 155gr and 1350 w/180gr. both around a 95% load density. win 231 powder at the same 29,500psi your down to 1350/155gr and 1170fps/180gr ~75%load density. unique isn't that bad of a powder either only about 50-100fps drop.

remember this is just software, not real world numbers. although I have found that it's not far off as long as you put the right info in.
not trying to call you out or anything like that, but my load books, powder mfg websites and other sources dont have velocities anywhere near that fast, nor any of the powder makers lists loads like you posted. alliants MAX load for a 155gr and unique is only 1207 FPS and 1005 FPS with a 180 gr. and both of those are MAXIMUM loads that are considred right at the limit and should be used with extreme caution. my 10mm load that runs 1525 FPS is 3 grains OVER what alliant says is safe and that a compressed powder load.

is this quickload software actual loading data or just a ballistic calcualtor of some sort?

SW
 

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using quickload software shows that power pistol would be a better cannidate for the 40 s&w. blue dot doesn't even get close to maxing out pressures. not enough case capacity. max saami loads show with power pistol you can get 1650fps with a 155gr and 1400fps with a 180gr bullet @35000psi even backed down to 29,500psi your looking at 1560fps with a 155gr and 1350 w/180gr. both around a 95% load density. win 231 powder at the same 29,500psi your down to 1350/155gr and 1170fps/180gr ~75%load density. unique isn't that bad of a powder either only about 50-100fps drop.

remember this is just software, not real world numbers. although I have found that it's not far off as long as you put the right info in.
not trying to call you out or anything like that, but my load books, powder mfg websites and other sources dont have velocities anywhere near that fast, nor any of the powder makers lists loads like you posted. alliants MAX load for a 155gr and unique is only 1207 FPS and 1005 FPS with a 180 gr. and both of those are MAXIMUM loads that are considred right at the limit and should be used with extreme caution. my 10mm load that runs 1525 FPS is 3 grains OVER what alliant says is safe and that a compressed powder load.

is this quickload software actual loading data or just a ballistic calcualtor of some sort?

SW
it's actually a fairly accurate loading data software. as long as you do your part by putting in the correct coal,barrel length, bullet, powder, temprature, ect.

the reason your probably not seeing velocitys anywhere near the same is they typically test at a specific barrell length in the books. example in my speer reloading book it shows the tests were done in a 4" barrel. a 155gr bullet with power pistol has a max load velocity of 1213fps.

putting the same 155gr speer gold dot at the same coal with the same powder charge in a 4" barrel quick load comes up with a velocity of 1228fps. now with no other changes to the setup but changing the barrel length from 4" to 17.5" the velocity jumps to 1609fps at a happy 32,900psi.
another neat feature is that it shows a therotical powder burn. with the 4" barrel it says only 85% of the powder would have burned by the end of the muzzle @ 17.5" it will have burned 97% of the powder.

disclaimer: this is a black majic voodo software, I don't take everything as godsend. It gives you a mathmatical start in the right direction. as always you should start at least 10% below maximum and work up the load. however I have had great results which has saved me money on powder selection.

waiting on my 995ts to show up to do real world testing in a carbine, then we can turn this theory into reality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I did some number-crunching on your numbers, squirrel_slayer. A 155gr projectile at 1609fps is 886 ft/lbs, representing an 87% increase in energy over Wikipedia's listing for a 155gr bullet from a 4" barrel (475 ft/lbs.) The closest comparison I can find for energy is a .30 Carbine round fired from an 18" barrel, listed as 880 ft/lbs.
Quite respectable, I do believe...
 
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