CCW and signs saying not to

Discussion in 'CCW & Open Carry' started by Back2School, May 21, 2014.

  1. Back2School

    Back2School Member

    Just wanted to get you guys' thoughts on a topic that came up on my Jeep Forum.

    A guy who is an armed security guard with a valid CCW and works on federal property was saying he isnt allowed to carry or store a weapon even in his car. He can only be armed while on duty. He gave an instance where he almost got attacked a few nights ago and was looking for a place to hide his carry piece in his Jeep. Not to take into his area, but just a place to store in his vehicle while he is working.

    Now this brought up whole bunch of responses and a lot of the supposed 2nd amendment "supporters" were arguing that any owner posting a sign is setting the law and if you fail to follow it you should be locked up. Now being in Kansas, if they see my carry piece, all they can do to me is ask me to leave. If I refuse, they can then call the police who might or might not do something especially if it has happened before. So for me I don't see this as a major issue. I'll carry where I want maybe with the exception of federal property..

    What do you think? Does putting up a sign saying no guns allowed end my constitutional right in your opinion to the point of felony jail time?
  2. slade601

    slade601 Member

    We have enhanced carry here. Take the regular class then do a shooting course. It supposedly let's you bypass any sign that isn't federal property. But as far as I'm concerned a sign at a gas station or restaurant is just that... A sign. If your weapon is concealed leave it at that. Much rather lose a job than my life.

  3. tallbump

    tallbump Supporting Member

    It depends on the law in your state. In PA, a sign is a sign. No force of law. If you are seen carrying in a place with the sign, they can ask you to leave. If you don't, you're trespassing.
  4. mawguy

    mawguy Sheep Dog Member

    First, I would observe that this question is only pertinent to law abiding citizens, since the criminal element doesn't care about the law. Criminals don't want to be burdened by the law.

    In Kansas, Private property that is "properly" posted no longer has a criminal penalty for ignoring the sign. As a previous poster mentioned, you can face trespass charges if you don't leave with your weapon.

    I still won't carry in federal buildings, or even state buildings because fighting the system from the inside of a jail cell is a losing proposition.

    One other interesting thing about Kansas is that any state owned building that does not have security to protect the occupants is no longer a gun free zone.
  5. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    The feds can make up laws about their property, and enforce them on their property, regardless of state law.

    Is he an armed CCW holder who works security for the feds, or is the fed job a second one that isn't the armed security guard gig?

    Since he is worried about it, it must be the second, right? In which case...jail time could be the reward for locking a gun in his Jeep. wouldn't stop me, assuming its not a max security installation with searches on the way in and out. I would just keep mum about it, and conceal it as well as I could.
  6. MachoMelvin

    MachoMelvin Well-Known Member

    The Gov a ment is the Gov a ment! They can make, rewrite & enforce the laws as they please. Just ask the AG?
    As far as anybody else's " illegal gunz only" sign, they are just informing me to take my $$$$ elsewhere.
    I am too HAPPY to oblige them!
  7. Back2School

    Back2School Member

    He didnt put everything out there so I dont know all of the answers.

    It just struck me as odd the number of "2nd amendment supporters" who claimed to diligently support 2nd rights but were telling this guy if he tried to hide a gun he SHOULD be locked up. They went so far as to say with the current climate we should just give in, do what they say and not rock the boat or we will lose all. One guy even tried to tell me we have more freedoms than anywhere else in the world, we should be thankful for what we have left. I was shocked. He was a Kansan too :(

    I just see so many less freedoms than when I was a kid I cant just say well its good enough

  8. It's my understanding that the penalty varies state to state,
  9. ArmyScout

    ArmyScout Supporting Member

    Should we as gun owners encourage other gun owners to break the law? Obeying the law is not giving in, it's not going to Jail. There are other ways to fight anti-gun laws. Want to fight gun laws? Join the NRA or other pro-gun Organizations. We can only do it through others, by financial aid and legislators.
  10. bws

    bws Member

    The facility I work at is protected by the DoD Police. They have a strict "no weapons" policy posted at all entrances, so long haul truckers must surrender their weapons while on site, and when they leave, they are returned. Employees, on the other hand, don't get that courtesy. They've even gone so far as to roam the 40 acre parking lot with dogs trained to hit on bombs, bullets and god knows what else, and several of us have been pulled off the job only to be questioned. I've caught hell because I've had a number of spent rifle casings in the back of my truck, so then they want to search my vehicle. Even though where i work is in a small town, it's located immediately adjacent to the worst part of the area, so when I get called in in the middle of the night or leave well after dark, I'm generally uptight until I hit the interstate.

    I do NOT like that I can't at least secure my weapon in a lock box in my truck, while I'm on the property, but it's federally owned property and I'm not overly enthusiastic about figuring out the differences between the DoD's application of law vs. the city, county and state LEO's. At the bare minimum, I know I'd lose my job, but what fines, penalties and whether or not I'd be charged with a felony is something I'd really rather not find out the hard way. All I do know is I'm not subject to the UCMJ, since I'm a civilian. Past that, who knows?
  11. geekandwife

    geekandwife Good ole Boy Member

    It all depends on your state. In my state the signs are just that, a sign. They do not carry force of law, however I do know when i visit my grandparents in Ohio, If there is a sign and I ignore it I can go to jail and lose my CCW for it. However it is law in my state that we can for any an all employers even federal employers that we can store our gun in our vehicle while at work.
  12. Back2School

    Back2School Member

    well going into a place that ha a no posted sign is not necessarily against the law - as said above it varies state to state. Like I said, where I am, they can only ask me to leave. It is not breaking the law. Its less than driving 56 in a 55 mile per hour zone. Would you be so quick to condemn somebody driving that fast? Or someone with an open container when in public (non driving) - this usually is very illegal to have even an open beer can not in your home or a restaurant.

    Laws can be wrong. People can be ignorant and swayed by those in power, it doesnt make things right. If I thought there was a chance that the people in power were actually honest and not in it for themselves, I would agree with you. Too bad that has never been the case.

    I dont follow anything blindly. And if the wrong laws are passed, I will be civilly disobedient (See Conn & NY right now). I will never be the guy who states "we just did as we were told". If the people who founded this great country thought that way we would still be bowing to a king.
  13. Atomic_Ed

    Atomic_Ed Member

    Humm, states do not have statutory authority over the security of federal property. You're into Homeland Security provisions regarding the possession of firearms on federal property and it is illegal to enter if posted as such. (Where I work, it is posted and you cannot ccw carry, regardless of state law.) Our building is protected by Homeland Security Forces and/or Federal Marshals.

    Please re-think the idea that your state ccw permit is valid on Federal property.
  14. ArmyScout

    ArmyScout Supporting Member

    You go ahead and break the laws you think are wrong and take the chance to have your firearms confiscated and become a felon. Or you can round up as many "Patriots" as you can find and start your own revolution just like they did in 1775. Someone has to do it, right?
  15. geekandwife

    geekandwife Good ole Boy Member

    Depends entirely on type of federal property we are talking about. Postal workers are federal workers. Gun free zone at distribution centers. But in Kentucky an employer cannot stop an employee from storing their gun in their car in the employers private lot.
  16. bluebone

    bluebone Duke of Sarcasm Member

    like B2S said, it's NOT breaking any law if you carry into a posted privately owned establishment. The sign has NO rule of law. if a person of proper authority within the establishment notices the weapon and asks you to leave then no laws have been broken until and unless you refuse to leave.
  17. beaglenc

    beaglenc Member

    This is true, but what about respect for the wishes of the property owner?
    Do you have land? Is it posted? If so, how would you feel about about folks just ignoring the sign? Considering your desires for your own property to be meaningless?
  18. geekandwife

    geekandwife Good ole Boy Member

    In some states. In other states knowingly carrying past the signs is a crime. And can lead to jail time or loss of your gun rights
  19. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    Well said. And im sure ill get the "youre a liberal..." retaliation, but, all this "i'll just take my, money elsewhere" ..... Its like anything else, our rights are no more important than thiers, if a business owner wants to,put,up a sign, whether it holds power of law or not, why not just respect it? Why should they have to give in and accept what u want? If you like thier product or service, saying you'll just write then off because they wont accomodate you for the few minutes you will spend there is dumb. If you don't like thier product or service, who cares what sign they have on the door if youre not gonna use them anyway. Cant just expect everyone to do what you feel is right, at three expense of doing what they think is right.
  20. bluebone

    bluebone Duke of Sarcasm Member

    if the property owner isnt going to provide any sort of security to protect me or my family while i'm lawfully in their place of business then their wishes are meaningless to me. i'd prefer not to go to these places but sometimes you have to appease some of the people you accompany. if i'm not breaking a law then the property owner can KMA.