[Zamak-Zeppelin]

I'm new to the forum and happy to find a place that covers these firearms and pieces of firearms history. My collection currently consists of a Raven MP-25 and a new old-stock Cobra FS-380. When searching for magazine I came across this one on E-bay that we've all probably seen at this point.

I purchased it out of curiosity and discovered that it's manufactured by Pro-Mag and it appears to be a modified Diamondback magazine. The spacer on it is 3D printed.

When I first got it, it wouldn't lock into the magazine well and had to use a dremel to slightly elongate the cut-out area for the mag release to catch. Without the spacer the magazine would lock in, but if the slide was back and the magazine was bumped it would stick further into the chamber and prevent the slide from closing. I imagine this is why the spacer was included with the magazine. I've tested it with snap caps and it does feed, but haven't been able to take it to the range yet. Does anyone else have any experience with this magazine or any other extended magazines for these 380 acp Saturday Night Specials?

 

[histed]

Welcome to the zoo. I have no experience with these, but there are a good many here that have, or have had, rather large SNS collections. They'll be along shortly, I'm guessing

 

[adam01364]

Welcome @Zamak-Zeppelin. Looks like something out of Joe's Pawn Shop?
Sorry, I've had no experience with this particular extended mag for 380, been curious about them but never took the plunge.

I have bought NOS 15 round extended mags for the Raven though, they're a lot of fun.

 

[Zamak-Zeppelin]

Welcome @Zamak-Zeppelin. Looks like something out of Joe's Pawn Shop?
Sorry, I've had no experience with this particular extended mag for 380, been curious about them but never took the plunge.

I have bought NOS 15 round extended mags for the Raven though, they're a lot of fun.
View attachment 75737

You got it right on the head with Joe's Pawn Shop. They are a bit steep, I think I paid $39 and some change for it, but now it's over $45. My hope is to get to the range this Sunday for testing, but that may not happen. I intend on recording some of the shooting and marking all FTF, FTE, and everything in-between as well as I haven't seen much data on how new Cobra FS-380s performed and haven't seen many new old stock come up for sale minus mine so I'm looking forward to the general testing and the 10 round extended magazine.

Once I do get a chance to get out to shoot I'll come back here to make a post regarding the results of the extended mag and the gun in general. As a side note, I've been searching high and low for a Cobra Patriot pat9 or even the 45 model, but I can't find anything. Do you have any information on why they may be so scarce or lacking information?

Thanks for the welcome everyone as well!

 

[adam01364]

As a side note, I've been searching high and low for a Cobra Patriot pat9 or even the 45 model, but I can't find anything. Do you have any information on why they may be so scarce or lacking information?

Cobra PAT9 and Cobra PAT45 were completely different guns. The reputation of the 9mm was abysmal, but I've read that the 45ACP was good (I've never owned the .45)
Be forewarned that most of the Cobra Patriot 9 pistols had failure to fire issues out of the box (as in, pull the trigger, click, no bang). You can work through the issues as long as you're willing to do a lot of fluff 'n buff to work out the kinks. Polishing the F/P channel in the slide was critical. I had one, and I wasn't unhappy to part with it. Most shooters were not as patient and returned them. Now that Cobra has been sued out of existence, they've become extremely hard to find. There never was a lot of information out there on the PAT380/9mm or PAT45 even from the factory.

PAT9 History:

The PAT9 goes back to Jim Waldorf (of Lorcin). After the demise of Lorcin, he started up Standard Arms and manufactured a copy of the Kel-Tec P11 called the SA9. In the pic below, note the trigger guard "horn" which is classic Lorcin /Waldorf. The pistol had quality issues (surprise, surprise!) and Standard Arms folded fairly quickly.

The tooling was picked up by Talon Industries, who manufactured the Talon T100 (380) and T200 (9mm). Talon did nothing to improve the quality issues of the SA9. Instead, they introduced a bigger (huge!) problem: Talon's brain trust decided to shave costs and ditch the steel slide of the SA9 in favor of a Zamak slide. They failed to beef up the slide, keeping it the same size as the steel slide. The result was catastrophic slide failures where the slide sheared off and came back into the shooter's face, causing significant injury. (There was a graphic video out there at one point). Exit Talon Industries.

Talon's tooling was picked up by Cobra Enterprises. Cobra's engineers were very aware of Zamak's limitations and they switched back to a steel slide when they introduced the new regurgitation of the SA9. However, they never really addressed the same reliability issues that plagued the SA9. Cobra never really marketed the pistol either. My guess is the pistol cost more to manufacture than the derringers and the CA and FS series, all of which were made of Zamak.

 

[Zamak-Zeppelin]

Cobra PAT9 and Cobra PAT45 were completely different guns. The reputation of the 9mm was abysmal, but I've read that the 45ACP was good (I've never owned the .45)
Be forewarned that most of the Cobra Patriot 9 pistols had failure to fire issues out of the box (as in, pull the trigger, click, no bang). You can work through the issues as long as you're willing to do a lot of fluff 'n buff to work out the kinks. Polishing the F/P channel in the slide was critical. I had one, and I wasn't unhappy to part with it. Most shooters were not as patient and returned them. Now that Cobra has been sued out of existence, they've become extremely hard to find. There never was a lot of information out there on the PAT380/9mm or PAT45 even from the factory.

PAT9 History:

The PAT9 goes back to Jim Waldorf (of Lorcin). After the demise of Lorcin, he started up Standard Arms and manufactured a copy of the Kel-Tec P11 called the SA9. In the pic below, note the trigger guard "horn" which is classic Lorcin /Waldorf. The pistol had quality issues (surprise, surprise!) and Standard Arms folded fairly quickly.

The tooling was picked up by Talon Industries, who manufactured the Talon T100 (380) and T200 (9mm). Talon did nothing to improve the quality issues of the SA9. Instead, they introduced a bigger (huge!) problem: Talon's brain trust decided to shave costs and ditch the steel slide of the SA9 in favor of a Zamak slide. They failed to beef up the slide, keeping it the same size as the steel slide. The result was catastrophic slide failures where the slide sheared off and came back into the shooter's face, causing significant injury. (There was a graphic video out there at one point). Exit Talon Industries.

Talon's tooling was picked up by Cobra Enterprises. Cobra's engineers were very aware of Zamak's limitations and they switched back to a steel slide when they introduced the new regurgitation of the SA9. However, they never really addressed the same reliability issues that plagued the SA9. Cobra never really marketed the pistol either. My guess is the pistol cost more to manufacture than the derringers and the CA and FS series, all of which were made of Zamak.

View attachment 75741

Thanks for the info! I never knew all that history before. I'd still be interested in find both one day to tinker with and just to own, but like you said they aren't really easy to find at all. All I managed was to find a 380 acp model.

On note with magazines, I did see a drum mag advertised for the PAT 9 once oddly enough.

 

[adam01364]

I keep waiting for Bearman Industries to re-release the CA32 /CA380 and the FS32 /FS380 but it prolly never will happen. From a price point perspective, the Bearman (formerly Cobra, formerly Davis) derringers have no competition. I don't think the profit margins are there for them in the semi-auto pistol market.

 

[undeRGRound]

I keep waiting for Bearman Industries to re-release the CA32 /CA380 and the FS32 /FS380 but it prolly never will happen. From a price point perspective, the Bearman (formerly Cobra, formerly Davis) derringers have no competition. I don't think the profit margins are there for them in the semi-auto pistol market.

What's your opinion on the BearMan Derringer? I've seen those in RK cases, never bothered to ask to see it yet.

 

[adam01364]

Thanks for the info! I never knew all that history before.

The Cobra Patriot PAT45 was originally the Republic Arms Patriot 45. Republic was the company Jim Davis founded after Davis Industries was sued into oblivion. I think Republic made under 1,000 Patriot 45 pistols before they went defunct. Cobra picked up the pieces and the pistol became the Cobra Patriot 45. As I said earlier, the pistol had a decent reputation, and IIRC the designer was an Israeli.

 

[adam01364]

@undeRGRound the Bearman derringers are Cobra derringers which are Davis derringers. Bearman added a trigger guard designed by a lawyer. (Cobra got sued by a guy who was pocket carrying a Cobra derringer and shot himself in the leg; the plaintiff claimed it was a defective design. That's what happens when one plays with a pistol in yer pocket and disengage engage the safety! That lawsuit, along with a few others, sounded the death knell for Cobra). I've owned Davis derringers in .22, .22mag, and .32ACP and they were fun guns, never had a problem with them. I suspect Bearman's are the same.

 

[Zamak-Zeppelin]

The Cobra Patriot PAT45 was originally the Republic Arms Patriot 45. Republic was the company Jim Davis founded after Davis Industries was sued into oblivion. I think Republic made under 1,000 Patriot 45 pistols before they went defunct. Cobra picked up the pieces and the pistol became the Cobra Patriot 45. As I said earlier, the pistol had a decent reputation, and IIRC the designer was an Israeli.

Where would be the best place to find one in the future? Looking to eventually expand my collection and it would be a nice addition.

 

[adam01364]

Where would be the best place to find one in the future? Looking to eventually expand my collection and it would be a nice addition.

Simple answer: Online auctions if you're looking for something in particular.
More involved answer: When I was building my collection of SNS pistols, I printed up business cards and left them at every single gun shop within a 100 mile radius. I told the proprietors that I was NOT paying top dollar, these were $hit guns, and we both knew it, but I'd take them off their hands if they took 'em in trade. Told them to feel free to call me before they took in a questionable (maybe broken?) gun. The benefit to them is they could make their customer happy with a trade, and I in turn got another SNS for my collection. It was slow getting going, and out of all the shops I visited, there were four that called me up regularly once we did some business. I got quite a few sub $50 guns that way. I also bought some guns along the way that I really didn't want to buy, but I did it to maintain the relationship.

 

[Zamak-Zeppelin]

Simple answer: Online auctions if you're looking for something in particular.
More involved answer: When I was building my collection of SNS pistols, I printed up business cards and left them at every single gun shop within a 100 mile radius. I told the proprietors that I was NOT paying top dollar, these were $hit guns, and we both knew it, but I'd take them off their hands if they took 'em in trade. Told them to feel free to call me before they took in a questionable (maybe broken?) gun. The benefit to them is they could make their customer happy with a trade, and I in turn got another SNS for my collection. It was slow getting going, and out of all the shops I visited, there were four that called me up regularly once we did some business. I got quite a few sub $50 guns that way. I also bought some guns along the way that I really didn't want to buy, but I did it to maintain the relationship.

I check out online auctions when I can, but none recently came up it seems. Though that is a smart idea on the business cards and what not, bu the wife told me only 1 more till we get a new house so I might need to hide any future additions of the collection at my friends place!

 

[adam01364]

It's always easier to beg forgiveness rather than to ask for permission. When I saw something I had been searching for high and low, I'd just buy it.

 

[Zamak-Zeppelin]

It's always easier to beg forgiveness rather than to ask for permission. When I saw something I had been searching for high and low, I'd just buy it.

Might be the route I have to take. If I have the cash and I see either the PAT 9 or the .45 I'll probably do just that.

 

[adam01364]

If you've really got a hankering for one of them, that's probably the best approach since they will become harder to find.
I did that when I ran across my NIB Sundance Pointblank derringer. "Sorry Sweetie, couldn't help myself". Happy hunting and Good Luck!

 

[Zamak-Zeppelin]

If you've really got a hankering for one of them, that's probably the best approach since they will become harder to find.
I did that when I ran across my NIB Sundance Pointblank derringer. "Sorry Sweetie, couldn't help myself". Happy hunting and Good Luck!

Thanks for the help with everything!

 

[adam01364]

Thanks for the help with everything!

Now I'm going to enable you, bwah-ha-ha!
Did you know that Cobra Enterprises made a revolver? It's was a .38 Special called the Cobra Shadow.
They marketed it as a competitor to S&W and Charter Arms revolvers. It was a swing and a huge miss.
There's one on Gunbroker right now.

 

[Zamak-Zeppelin]

Now I'm going to enable you, bwah-ha-ha!
Did you know that Cobra Enterprises made a revolver? It's was a .38 Special called the Cobra Shadow.
They marketed it as a competitor to S&W and Charter Arms revolvers. It was a swing and a huge miss.
There's one on Gunbroker right now.

I did know that they make one, but I didn't know there was one for sale 😂I want one eventually but I don't think I could swing it know as I have to take my car to the shop to fix the AC sadly. By God is that tempting though.

 

[histed]

I did know that they make one, but I didn't know there was one for sale 😂I want one eventually but I don't think I could swing it know as I have to take my car to the shop to fix the AC sadly. By God is that tempting though.

Just a suggestion, but you could buy the revolver then test it by shooting holes in the doors to let the air through - no AC needed! Great idea, tight?. No??? You're prolly right - gotta keep Mama happy