Considering a new rifle caliber.

Discussion in 'General Firearms Discussion' started by RedRaptor22, Dec 30, 2014.

  1. RedRaptor22

    RedRaptor22 Member

    427
    1
    So this christmas I messed up and bought my dad a savage 93r17, bsa sweet17 scope and bipod, even though he want a .22mag. Well long story short this little savage has driven us both insane with how ridiculously accurate it is.

    Now I'm probably going to have my own soon, but marlin flavored. But I was looking hard for other similarly ridiculous rounds that would be a tad bit more capable with deer and pigs and have been thinking really really hard about the ruger american .22-250, it's supposed to be similarly lazer-like to the .17, but with even better range and 65-75gr rounds are fairly easy to find.

    My question does anyone have much experience with them? How is the accuracy on them out to say 300 or 400 yards?
     
  2. USMC_VET

    USMC_VET Supporting Member

    I have a Savage axis .308 with about $850 in mods done to it and absolutely love this rifle . I'm constantly seeing sub moa groupings @100 yrds and it is so easy to do this . I can also easily hit a 12"dia gong @ 200 yrds all day long . Haven't gone out past 200 yrds but my rifle is quite capable of 1000yrds
     

  3. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,519
    10,749
    NE Utah
    The one negative on the 22-250 is they burn barrels, some say as soon as 2000 rounds.

    But it's a great varmint round.

    .220 Swift is another 4000 FPS round. Same goods and bads as 22-250

    .243 and 6mm Remington are two slightly larger rounds, they can go fast in a light bullet, or shoot heavier bullets, which is good in windier conditions, and on bigger critters.
     
  4. Johnny_B_Goode

    Johnny_B_Goode Member

    218
    1
    I would get a .222 before a 22/250. Ammo is cheap for a 222. Rifles are more expensive in 222 but you get a very nice rifle that wasn't found in the bargain bin at Walmart. I really like the 25/06 but you have be careful when you buy ammo. Most off the shelf ammo is to slow for the 25cal bullet to create massive amounts of hydrostatic shock. PPU does make a very good cartridge for the 25/06. If you reload the 25/06 case is large enough to use a wide variety of powders. I would avoid the very bottom of the bargain rifles. I would probably set a Ruger American as the cheapest rifle I would buy. I would avoid the axis rifles..the stock is just too flimsy. I would avoid the Marlins for the same reason.
     
  5. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

    8,912
    6,413
    Had a 22-250 improved. Could take groundhogs at 300-400 yards easily. The barrel shot out fairly quickly, I'm guessing 3000 rounds. Also when shooting the lighter bullets, they would sometimes come apart when they exited the barrel.

    I think a 22-250 would be an ok deer round with a premium bullet. I like the Barnes TTSX. Be aware that the TTSX generally requires a faster twist, so you would probably not get good accuracy with their bullets over 50 grains with the 1/12 twist of most 22-250's. Savage does make some 22-250's with a faster 1/9 twist, which is the way I would go. It would shoot the 55 grain TTSX well and would do well with lead core bullets up to 75 grains or so. Sierra, Berger, and others make a 90 grain bullet that may be great for deer if you could get enough velocity to stabilize it.

    The 55 grain TTSX , and I would think 50 grain also - I have not fired it, does well for me out of a 223. Penetrates well, good expansion. I would think they would do well out of a 22-250 also.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  6. RedRaptor22

    RedRaptor22 Member

    427
    1
    I was looking at the .223 as well.
     
  7. RedRaptor22

    RedRaptor22 Member

    427
    1
    I have a 30.06 for distance and a 30.30 for brush ready so not really interested in larger calibers, common conception around here is that anything smaller than a .270 is somehow less lethal and has no range....and that is why I want it lol.
     
  8. I have a .243 will reach 300 yards like I'm a pro. Also enough weight to the 100gr. Bullets to rake down a deer easy. Easy to find ammo. And it sure is devastating to coyotes.
     
  9. RedRaptor22

    RedRaptor22 Member

    427
    1
    Hmm, may have too look into that one too.
     
  10. Johnny_B_Goode

    Johnny_B_Goode Member

    218
    1
    Premium bullets are just snake oil. If the gun will not do the job with a hot soft point a premium bullet will do no better. A friend shot a deer with a 25/06 Winchester Silvertip. The Nosler bullet in the silvertip didn't even pass through the deer. PPU ammo would have blown the deer up at 25 yards. She shot the deer in the neck out of a tree. The bullet entered the deers neck and would have exited through the deers chest/shoulder. A little chunk of the bullet was stuck under the deers skin. I didn't see the deer but I saw the 22LR size remnant of the bullet.

    All I shoot is soft point ammo. I don't even shoot the Remington core lock. The farthest I have shot a deer with the 270 is 300 yards. The Winchester super x bullet passed through the deer and blew a baseball sized exit wound in the deer. Back then 130gr superx ammo had a velocity 3,200 fps. Now superx is 2,800 fps to make the cry baby, wieners happy. PPU has a velocity of right at 3,100 fps. A 130gr 270 cartridge has to have a velocity over 3,000 fps to create large amounts of hydrostatic shock. At 2,800 fps you just as well use a 223.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  11. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,519
    10,749
    NE Utah
    Dude...you are not reading what he's saying. He wasn't talking about performance on target as the reason for upgrading bullets.

    You need premium bullets in a 4000 fps rifle, or THEY COME APART IN THE AIR!

    This is not snake oil, it's a well known fact. Not every cheaper bullet will fail, but enough do, that people with the fast stuff know to just get the better bullets.

    The part about performance on targets was there simply to show that the rounds he uses DO, probably, also do well on meat. Many of the lighter varmint bullets are almost frangible, they almost explode on targets, they are so fragile.

    That's not good on deer, so he suggested heavier bullets there.
     
  12. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

    8,912
    6,413
    Think you said it better than me. A puff of gray smoke a foot in front of the muzzle is not usually a good thing!
     
  13. RedRaptor22

    RedRaptor22 Member

    427
    1
    I would most likely be looking to a higher grain to have a little less fps out of the barrel, only problem is most of the rifles I've been looking at have a 1-9 twist rate and it seems putting to heavy a bullet accelerates wear substantially. 2-3k shots I can handle because I really just don't shoot all that often.

    As far as performance on meat I'm not "extremely" concerned, I pretty much hunt animals the way you would zombies, head or neck shots only....I'm just way too lazy to chase a deer a mile for the sake of a mount... rather drop em and give someone some nice knife handles lol.
     
  14. RedRaptor22

    RedRaptor22 Member

    427
    1
    Ok, doing more research it looks like the savage axis has a 1-12 twist which should be better for heavy rounds, and SHOULD last a bit longer, and not be as likely to spin the jackets off, only down side is a little less accuracy.

    But I think at $279 right now it seems like a pretty decent deal, and threaded barrel is another plus when it comes time to swap on a new one, I know its not a beautiful gun but savages just plain work good most of the time, can always get a boyd's stock for a hundred or so bucks later on.
     
  15. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member


    That's 100% true.... Knew I guy that hand rolled 22/.250. He couldn't figure out why his hot loaded rounds weren't on paper at 100, or 50 yards.... He finally tried shooting at 20 yards, and was seeing fragments dusting the paper.
     
  16. so did you decide on a caliber?
     
  17. RedRaptor22

    RedRaptor22 Member

    427
    1
    Pretty sure its going to be the 22-250, looking at .223 and .243 ballistic charts they just aren't anywhere close to being as flat shooting rounds, and and .222 doesn't come in anything affordable right now.

    I could save up but savages are flat out functional with decent adjustable triggers, and since I don't leave anything alone I can build it as I go. For $279 at academy its a good starting point I think.
     
  18. Johnny_B_Goode

    Johnny_B_Goode Member

    218
    1
    I have to admit I do not have any experience with little tiny bullets. I got some 100grain bullets for my 270. They would explode if they hit a blade of grass. At the time you had two options a soft point or a nosler partition. I think the partition is what turned me off premium bullets. You shoot a black bear with a cheapo 150 gr soft point and then shoot another bear the same size with a partition the soft point knocks a hole in the bear and you will find the bear. He is dead right where you shot him. The partition anything might happen. I would advise having a good tracking dog if you choose the partition.
     
  19. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member


    Id say the only bonus for the .243, would be availability of ammo....
     
  20. RedRaptor22

    RedRaptor22 Member

    427
    1
    Yeah 22-250 will most likely have to be an internet purchase, but I'm sure since it's fairly unpopular around here they might be an easy score, never can tell.