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After reading the second article it makes more sense why he fired. He had been beaten to almost death before. I must say if I had that experience before and some guy attacked me, Im not sure what I would do in that situation. I think his past experience will get him off with lesser charges.
 

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Okay...unless I'm missing something, someone lost their life over a simple argument? Did the victim have a gun or something? It sounds like they were having a verbal argument and this guy pulled his weapon and shot the other guy.

Why should he walk????
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Did you read both articles? Guy is sitting in his car. Has verbal confrontation with another guy. Other guy gets out of car, continues altercation and then assaults guy while he is sitting in his car. Guy in the car has cwp, presumably fears for his life, pulls weapon and shoots the puncher. Wrongly leaves the scene but is the valid shooting nullified by flight?
 

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I never got the whole "stay at the scene" thing. I'm not talking about running home and hiding. But staying at the scene of what you believe to be an attack on your life is downright ignorant. Extricate yourself to safety and call the police while you are driving toward the police station.

-'b
 

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He definitely shouldn't have fled the scene... But it seemed to me that he was justified in what he did. Perhaps he should have just pointed it at the guy and let him back off, but then I bet things happened fast, and he was probably afraid the guy was going to take it and shoot him. Also, he was in the Army... I wouldn't know, but would military training make him more likely to pull and shoot? Combat training doesn't sound like it'd be very focused on sparing the assailant.

He could have handled it better, but I'd say he was justified. Sadly, he's getting pretty beat up by the press here.
 

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Handled it better? He shot a guy who he started an argument with...sorry I don't see any justified shooting here, even if a punch was thrown I believe you're probably going to run into an equal force kind of thing. I think from the nuances of the story, he was carrying hoping for a "revenge" from the beating he got and I think his 9mm made him feel big and bad and he started an argument he couldn't back up then used the gun to extricate himself from a problem of his own making. I'm sorry boys and girls this is NOT what concealed carry is for.
 

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He had an argument. That's not a crime. It becomes a crime when it escalates to physical force. The fact is, he wasn't the aggressor here. The aggressor was the man who threw the punch. He got hit in the face, panicked, and defended himself more vigorously than was needed.
 

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He had an argument. That's not a crime. It becomes a crime when it escalates to physical force. The fact is, he wasn't the aggressor here. The aggressor was the man who threw the punch. He got hit in the face, panicked, and defended himself more vigorously than was needed.
I didn't say having an argument was a crime I said this particular cat had a chip on his shoulder and was looking for a fight IMO. Whats wrong with rolling the window up? Hmmm?
 

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Handled it better? He shot a guy who he started an argument with...sorry I don't see any justified shooting here, even if a punch was thrown I believe you're probably going to run into an equal force kind of thing. I think from the nuances of the story, he was carrying hoping for a "revenge" from the beating he got and I think his 9mm made him feel big and bad and he started an argument he couldn't back up then used the gun to extricate himself from a problem of his own making. I'm sorry boys and girls this is NOT what concealed carry is for.
thats how i read it too. i wasn't there, so i can't judge for sure. but i do feel confident in saying that there is no way he should have left the scene.
 

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I've only been teaching CCW for a couple of years but I've carried since '03. This is a problem I've seen with a lot of CCW license holders: "I don't need to know how to fight. That's why I carry a gun." For a lot of people there's no in-between. There's a reason that LEOs get unarmed fighting training, pepper spray training, taser training, and firearms training. They should always have a level of force that meets the situation. CCW holders shouldn't be any different.

-'b
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm not sure we can attribute a "chip on his shoulder" when, I think after having almost lost his lifei n a previous assault, he is more likely to have some post traumatic stress and reacted in fear when he was assaulted. If he had been a female rape victim and this had happened would we still be talking about a "revenge" shooting? I think we should give the assault victim the benefit of the doubt. I thought CCW is designed for defending yourself in a life threatening situation. This puts us in the position to guess as to whether or not the guy panicked and feared for his life.

I wouldn't argue that it is not on the very edge of the self defense line, but I think you have to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. It is unfortunate that a mother and her kids will now have to live without a husband and father, but had he not gotten out of his car, acted like a bully and punched a guy, he'd be home now.

I am curious as to the state of the aggressor. He'd been playing golf all day and picking up late dinner. Could he have been under the influence of alcohol? It's not uncommon for golfers to overindulge on the course in Myrtle Beach. He may have had just enough in him to cause him to overreact to the situation. just my $.02
 

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I'm not sure we can attribute a "chip on his shoulder" when, I think after having almost lost his lifei n a previous assault, he is more likely to have some post traumatic stress and reacted in fear when he was assaulted. If he had been a female rape victim and this had happened would we still be talking about a "revenge" shooting? I think we should give the assault victim the benefit of the doubt. I thought CCW is designed for defending yourself in a life threatening situation. This puts us in the position to guess as to whether or not the guy panicked and feared for his life.

I wouldn't argue that it is not on the very edge of the self defense line, but I think you have to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. It is unfortunate that a mother and her kids will now have to live without a husband and father, but had he not gotten out of his car, acted like a bully and punched a guy, he'd be home now.

I am curious as to the state of the aggressor. He'd been playing golf all day and picking up late dinner. Could he have been under the influence of alcohol? It's not uncommon for golfers to overindulge on the course in Myrtle Beach. He may have had just enough in him to cause him to overreact to the situation. just my $.02
Yes if the female rape victim went to seedy parts of town, for no reason other than to get men to react, carrying, I sure would be talking about a revenge shooting. Just because someone was beat by a gang doesn't mean every fistfight would end in his death. As I said HE started the argument not the "aggressor" and you don't know what the shooter was saying to said "aggressor" and I still ask when the aggressor got out of his car and this guy was so traumatized from a previous beating? Why didn't he roll up the window or drive away , as he did AFTER he shot the "aggressor" ? No something stinks about this IMO. As you can see I think if you start mouthing off to someone else I think that makes you a wee bit of an "aggressor" too, no matter what you say about whats a crime and whats not people are people. Also as far as I know pulling the trigger is last resort. He was still in his running car afterall and could have driven away ..or issued warnings to stay back etc did he? no...punch...BANG! not appropriate on any level, shooters past notwithstanding. He had too many other ways out imo, the first being mind your own business and try a little patience at the drive thru window. We can't attribute chip on his shoulder but we can now accuse the puncher of being drunk? I think the facts lean more toward my interpertation than just making things up does. So punching someone means you should be shot now? Shakes head. No wonder bars fight concealed carry so hard with attitudes like this in the gun owning community.
 

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First off their wasn't enough details in the first article! Could the guy that did the shooting drive off, roll up his windows, start the argument again, did the aggressor have a weapon or 6' 5" and 300lbs?
 

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Well heres the follow up that say it it was dropped to manslaughter because he was being assaulted at the the time of the shooting, but notice it also covers the angle that they think Miller could have driven away.

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2009/aug/01/charges_filed_killing91162/

I still think it was a bad shoot and not a good example of a carry weapon used properly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Perhaps I have been too enthusiastic in my defense of the shooter. I truly am just trying to flesh out whether this guy's actions are defensible. I still feel like Miller can mount some defense but I certainly see where he did have other options. I just HATE bullies. I hate that people have to scurry away from aggressive people to keep things like this from happening.
 

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Perhaps I have been too enthusiastic in my defense of the shooter. I truly am just trying to flesh out whether this guy's actions are defensible. I still feel like Miller can mount some defense but I certainly see where he did have other options. I just HATE bullies. I hate that people have to scurry away from aggressive people to keep things like this from happening.
I agree to a certain extent and if the guy would have been the one honking and arguing first instead of the shooter well then yeah. The problem here is we don't know what was said in the argument..as long as we're engaged in wild speculation mostly here let me do some. Suppose Miller in his car called the guys wife a whore or a b-word, or insulted his kids..(or pick your insult), then if you were said aggressor would you have swung on the guy who just insulted your wife? After he honked and yelled at you on top of that?
 

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Perhaps I have been too enthusiastic in my defense of the shooter. I truly am just trying to flesh out whether this guy's actions are defensible. I still feel like Miller can mount some defense but I certainly see where he did have other options. I just HATE bullies. I hate that people have to scurry away from aggressive people to keep things like this from happening.
i hate bullies too, but in 99% of cases (thats my statistic, not scientific) there is no need to pull a pistol on them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Perhaps I have been too enthusiastic in my defense of the shooter. I truly am just trying to flesh out whether this guy's actions are defensible. I still feel like Miller can mount some defense but I certainly see where he did have other options. I just HATE bullies. I hate that people have to scurry away from aggressive people to keep things like this from happening.
I agree to a certain extent and if the guy would have been the one honking and arguing first instead of the shooter well then yeah. The problem here is we don't know what was said in the argument..as long as we're engaged in wild speculation mostly here let me do some. Suppose Miller in his car called the guys wife a whore or a b-word, or insulted his kids..(or pick your insult), then if you were said aggressor would you have swung on the guy who just insulted your wife? After he honked and yelled at you on top of that?
No! Words never hurt anyone. I think walking away from trash talk is easy. I don't like it when someone feels like they have get physical. People either feel intimidated (which I hate) and scurry away or feel like they have to respond to violence with violence. I guess this is why I got so passionate about Miller's defense. I hate it when people put others in a position of cowering or fighting. That's crazy!
 
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