Davis P-32 and P-380 barrel fitting

Discussion in 'Cobra/Davis/Lorcin' started by adam01364, May 8, 2020.

  1. magnut

    magnut Member

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    It would be nice if Cobra and Jimenez could get it together. Cobra actually has potential in the patriot series if they would get serious about fitting. The freedom series actually cured a lot of the problems with the old Lorcins. The Davis 380 was always a piece of junk. The Denali fixed most of the issues but the CA380 should have been tossed. The CA32 and Davis P32 were always fine outside the barrels not stabilizing rounds due to lack of rifleing.

    As for Jimenez... they just made everything worse for the most part. The actually figured out ways to cheapen Jennings and Brycos. Half of their line should have been tossed... The JA380, T380, JA9, and LC380 all have major issues. The LC380 could have been saved with a decent magazine meant for 380acp best the rest all suffer from major component failures. The SNS fans spent some effort trying to work with both but it went ignored for the most part. I was in contact with Cobra for a while with a few of their "techs" where I had worked out most of the issues with the Patriot series after they provided me with parts for some of the basketcase guns I bought. Not bad people just incompetent and S-L-O-W. They also had major problems with subcontracted parts munufacturers back then.

    In the end it is what it is. Profit over everything else with a focus on sales and marketing instead of putting out a quality product and building a customer base. Put out enough Junk trying to make fast money and you lose any notion of consumer base which then kills sales. Lots of big manufacturers are going this same route even now. The actual design of the guns are excellent. The Patriot series is Kelgren and Sirkis designed. The freedom, CA, and denali are all basically the Raven design (as is the high point BTW).

    So the simplistic design, materials used etc offer a lot in terms of profit margin. However.... you absolutely must put the guns together correctly so they are somewhat reliable. Its either that or just sell raw kit guns for hobbyists. Cobra just half assed it on the back end. On the front end they did great. Then they started smoking crack and decided to make signature guns after watching too many James Bond movies. Similar to someone like Harbor frieght deciding to make precision surgical instruments for the medical field.

    Jimenez is just a joke. The mentality of making pistols that implode when useing standard presure ammo. The "get it out the door because nobody is going to shoot them anyways" mentality and "if it looks like a gun its good enough" just does not work. We are in a day and age where people like to shoot a lot and guns WILL be fired and tested. This was not always the case. Not saying they cannot turn things around but they would be better off just making 22,25, and 32 Jimenez pistols until the design changes can be made to beef up the offerings to the point where things are not cracking and fracturing within low round counts.

    Honestly I hope both these companies can turn it around. I am hard on them (as consumers should be) but it will be kind of sad if all of the SNS makers go down and all thats left is Hi-Point. Its become apparent throug the years that SNS manufacturers are not that bright. Evidence of that became clear when folks like Pheonix discontinued the Raven which was one of the most ignorant moves I had ever seen. Put the Raven in a polymer or aluminum frame, keep the price low, and it would sell like hotcakes. Instead pheonix pursues some sort of overcomplicated monstrosity zamak pistol with 78 safeties and cracking frames and slides....yeah OK. More crack smoking I guess.
     
  2. Rerun

    Rerun Supporting Member

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    I dunno what you're rambling about but, my CA32 had plenty of rifling.

    I put more than 6,000 rounds through my C9. I gifted it to a friend of mine who has earned a concealed carry permit with it.

    I've owned two Phoenix Arms .22LR pistols - one I bought used and another i bought new as the Range Master kit. Use the correct ammunition (standard velocity) and they'll last me years.

    eldar
     

  3. magnut

    magnut Member

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    maybe you have the special edition target model with the Walther barrel! I would like to see your groups. I have multiple CA32s and Davis P32s And what you are seeing as rifleing are basically just spiral scratches down the bore. Its only rifleing if it can stabilize a bullet. Now it should be said that 32acp specs are aaaaaaallllllll over the place so folks should try different 32acp loads and check the actual bullet diameter. Some are very undersized.....it helps to use a larger bullet in 32acp with the P32/ca32.

    C9 hi-point is a different animal. 6,000 is easy for a C9. Outside of breech face seperation and barrel loosening they hold up well beyond anything a 9mm can bring larged due to the overly excessive slide weight.... much more than it needs even for a blowback 9mm. A C9 could probably run on 40s&w for a little while before bad things start happening. This is why hipoint can get away with weak magazine/and recoil springs. That massive slide equalls more time for the pistol to cycle in the end slowing down cyclic rate.....which is good.

    Ah yes... the pheonix. As long as you use certain ammunition, constantly change out recoil spings, and habitually inspect the pistol for cracks, excessive wear, parts wear etc. its fine...... for a while. Oh and dont shoot it too much.....its a 22lr after all. Those are not meant to be shot much.

    Then you have SNS guns like ravens and Hipoints which just run and run and run on any ammunition you can throw at them and dont really need any monitoring or spring replacement on a regular basis..... unless you just want to.

    They are what they are.... fragile overcomlicated Zamak junk Similar to euro zamaks like the erma lookalikes or the intratec 25acp.

    Not trying to rag on your pheonix pistols. They are what they are. If you get the urge for a zamak you should try a cheap Raven, Jennings 25 or even 22lr. They are worlds above the HP22. heck... I would take a Lorcin L25 over a HP22. At least the frames hold up. Only thing worse than a cracked frame is a slide to the face or a kaboom. Raven rarely ever break once they are running and are one accurate little pistol.

    If you love those pheonix pistols though it all good. They are fun to shoot for a while as long as you know all the issues. I have a few designs that are kind of sensitive I still like. Some I have to make (or have others make) reduced power ammo for so the guns dont crack themselves apart. I actually kind of like the feel of the pheonix HP25 in 25acp.... after I simplify and respring them.
     
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  4. What's the point of writing 13 paragraphs of stuff that most gun people already know?

    Just aksin'.
     
  5. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Cuz most of us don't even bother to learn all the ways that SNS are crap
    I know the generalities but not the specifics. The only one I want to learn how to make better now is my C39 "pistol"...
     
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  6. magnut

    magnut Member

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    C39? Is that a mini AK?
     
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  7. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Yes Sir! It is a Mini-AK or Draco, or Krinkov... USA made by Century. It has some
    internals that should be a higher grade of steel, and I need to find out which ones
    can be upgraded. Someday LOL
     
  8. magnut

    magnut Member

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    I know the AK platfom really well but not the pistols. How do you manage to shoot them? Lasers? I am kind of curious about all these chopped down rifles like the AR and AK that seem to be so popular now. It seems like it would be extremely difficult to get hits out further than 15 yards or so. Which then leads me to think people are thinking on terms of close quarter weapons.... but then your looking at massive muzzle flash and noise considerations. Something I am not getting in all this because seems like everyone is buying these cut downs for some reason. I have actually been practicing more with shotguns than anything else since all the violence started escalating.
     
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  9. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    I liked the look and I have a literal ton of ammo. It was reasonably cheap too, now it's a lot more. I guess I could sell it and make some $$$ but I kinda like the little thing. With an optic it should be quite accurate and it was not bad at that 15 yards. But yes, in my estimation it is a CQB deal. I also thought a laser would be an great addition, hip fired like a shotgun with a laser and it would be sweet! I held it like a handgun and used the sights. 30 rounds in a 6" circle as fast as I could fir the thing :D
     
  10. magnut

    magnut Member

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    If you like it and can hit with it thats really all that matters provided it runs well. If it were me I would definitly go with a laser first and then the optic when you could.. Red dots are fine but seems like it would be a weird hold. Plus you could still do that hold with a laser and just cant it sideways a little. I am sure you can get pretty darn efficient with it once you handle it enough and get used to it. Seems like it would do well on a single point sling being so short.... and I dont really like single point slings. That gun it could work though.

    Dont laugh.... I shoot an AB10 once in a while and its also awkward. I just like the tec9s for nostalgia. Its very strange though because you have to shoot it like a normal pistol and there is so much weight up front its really only manageable with 20rd mags. I still like it though. Makes me feel cool. Mac11s are a lot easier. They pretty much handle like a normal pistol.
     
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  11. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Saw a "bump-fire" Tec-9 demo and it's just gripping the handle with all 4 fingers and using to off hand on the trigger, and the recoil actuates the trigger. Great rate of fire as well! :D
     
  12. magnut

    magnut Member

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    My dealer is a class 3 with a full auto tec9. They are fun when they have a forward vertical grip. I cannot bump fire for anything. Full auto is hard enough to hit with when you dont practice all the time... bump fire is all but impossible.

    One exception I had was shooting a friends high end aluminum Bump stock on an AK74. I actually got a pretty good feel for that rifle really fast. Hits were easy at combat distance. I used to crack up at people ragging on bump stocks.... they were incredible. I never got one because I knew I would just blast through all my ammo. Its the same reason I never got into Class3 stuff.... ammo costs are rediculous. People who said bump stocks were trash because they couldnt hit anything most likely never dabbled in full auto. There was not a huge difference. Bumpstocking is not like bumpfireing. A bump stock makes you to stabilize the firearm and keep control in order for it to opperate. They are pretty genius IMO.

    I would never bumpfire my tecs.... they would probably break. Intratec plastic is brittle around the magwell and upper retaining pin holes. Lots of people like to bumpfire mac11 semis but the cyclic rate is so high I wont do it. One runaway or slippage and your in a nightmare. Might be doable with some sort of harness or stock setup to give you more contact. Macs have kind of a weird recoil impulse as a pistol. The bolt cant is behind the wrist on the mac11 and the pistol likes to rock side to side. The Mac12 is not nearly as bad partly because it doesnt have the overhang.
     
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  13. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Tec9 might be incorrect... which one looks like an UZI? Mac10 possibly, or it was an UZI. Anyway, the guy made it look EASY. but I agree, waste of ammo. I'm too cheap for that LOL
     
  14. magnut

    magnut Member

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    It was probably a mac 11 semi. Most Mac10 are 45acp and people are ussually to cheap to bumpfire 45. Yes Cobray types bump extremely easy.... sometimes even when you dont want them to! A lot of the swd/leinad/cobray semis have shoddy fitting internals with kind of lousy materials. luckily there is a pretty good aftermarket to aid with this.... Not cheap...anything class3 related is expensive.
     
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