factory iron sight mods * Update *

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by Daytonafreakboy, Feb 7, 2008.

  1. took the front sight off my factory irons , started to do some filing...

    man.. the metal hi point used for the front post is like butter!



    metal was so soft , i ended up doing some sanding

    used some 100 grit just to get a slightly finer point.

    still not satisfied.. got dark before i could do much more plinking, but it seems like im still going to be looking for a little bit finer feel for the 'point of impact'

    military style sights dont do it for me, should be able to shoot bottle caps out to 40 yards or so, just sandbagging these sweet little riffles with iron sights - just not with the hi-point factory irons :roll:

    so yeah , got a little bit too dark to pick up my sights after some sanding, im just wondering.. anyone on here mussed with using illuminated irons like trijicons?

    thanks in advance... Allen
     
  2. rnichol7

    rnichol7 Member

    Daytona,

    The 'iron' sights aren't actually 'Iron', or steel for that matter. A great many of the parts in the HP are made from an alloy called 'Zamak'. Zamak is an acronym for the metal that it is made from: Zinc, Aluminum, Magnesium, and Copper (which in German is spelled with a 'K').

    Because of Zamak's unique properties, a factory is able to die-cast a part in a finished or almost finished state. Compare this to the construction of say a 1911, where every casting, and or blank requires rough and finished machining.

    Zamak will not 'rust' but it will oxidize. So your bright colors will soon fade to a dirty gray color.

    I caution all HP owners to be very careful applying heat, or making modifications to the zamak cast parts on their carbines: A lot of engineering went into making that particular part a certain size and mass for its intended purpose. If you remove too much of it, you cannot add it back (I.e. fill with welding rod, or silver solder).

    I wonder if some of the more modern 'chrome' paints might give you the illumination you are looking for with out the fading?

    Another suggestion would be gluing (with an epoxy) a piece of florescent plastic to the site (I've seen gunsmiths do this - I will look for a source of the material they used and post it)

    Thank you,

    rnichols
     

  3. I have been tempted to try these. Don't know how much they would help in daylight though.

    http://nitesiters.com/
     
  4. Fenix

    Fenix Guest

    Wow, thats the best inexpensive modification I've ever seen.
     
  5. rnochol7,

    thank you for the information..


    my first thought was how hi point must have been reducing manufacturing cost by using an inexpensive metal

    it never crossed my mind to consider any advantages of its properties when producing cast parts..

    this stuff would machine almost like a bar of soap, reduced machine time down to next to nothing..

    good stuff, thanks for th insight


    and it looks like i have found a source for tritium vials..

    the actual compound used to manufacture illuminated sights

    this means i can set up my own modified version of the hi point sights with trijicon style illumination..

    need some more information before trying to put something toegther, but it looks like this would be cheaper than trying to mod a set of illuminated sightss to work well on my 995..
     
  6. panoz77

    panoz77 Member

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    I just ordered those nitesiters, I'll let you know, going to use them on my SKS as well.
     
  7. Glennfrank

    Glennfrank Member

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    CT
    Please let us know how they work out panoz. I'd be interested if they were decent.
     

  8. i second that.. very interested to know what you think of them
     
  9. Domino

    Domino Member

    I use Bright Sights High Visibility Gun Sight Coatings on my Rugers. They also have a "Ghost Glow Kit" that is a light activated luminated paint. I love the regular green paint on my handgun sights. A little vial goes a LONG way. Cheap too. I think you're onto something here.
     
  10. thanks

    nice one , much appreciated!

    im just about satisfied with the modifications ive made to the factory irons on my riffle

    thank you for all the coments on this thread, continues to be a big help

    in case somebody is interested, thought i would let the cat out of the bag on what i have been up to over here..

    and who knows, might help somebody out or give them their own ideas..

    has anybody ever shot a riffle that had iron sights in an " elk horn" configuration? heck , anybody even heard of that reference before?

    the closest thing i could find on the web of what my family has always reffered to as elkhorn sights, is a combination of D and C on this chart.

    [​IMG]

    where i live in florida, with such thick brush everywhere, its important to be able to draw down on a deer quickly - they dissapear completely after a jump or two most times..

    so these hunting style sights are much quicker to pick up your target with than most.. but you can still plink bottle caps and cigerrette lighters with them from 25 - 30 yards if you settle in and make your first pull really count.

    compared to military peep sights, the sights that my hi point came with, hunting style sights take more time to line up and aqcuire the target..

    high visibilty ( handgun style illuminated sights) would help to offset this, especially in low light..

    as soon as i have my irons lit up , they are done...

    when i get some time , ill illustrate exactly how i have my sights set up

    off to ebay to see what i can find !

    thanks again for all the info !

    Allen
     
  11. I find peep sights to be the quickest, because you are solely focued on the front sight, and not trying toi line them up, if you are using them right, your brain automatically centers up the rear aperture. Of course the peeps on the Hi point has the rear aperture a little too far forward, you shouldn't really be able to see the rear aperture.

    But everyone has their own preference, my second choice is a good front bead/ semi buckhorn, and the triangle sights in drawing G coming next.
     
  12. Thorn 242

    Thorn 242 Well-Known Member

    hey daytona

    they are actually called "buckhorn" sights....and they are the worst for quick and acuratte sighting...military peeps are better.....on your chart...sights b, c, and d are your best bet for open sights...they are still accurate out to at least 100 yds.....my personal favorite...BSA red dot.....can cut string at 50 yds if i take my time
     
  13. griff30

    griff30 Member

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    Re: factory iron sight mods... anyone?

    PICS?
     
  14. elkhorn=buckhorn

    cool , thought maybe grandpa made it up all by himself! :lol

    i guess that this would be something that is subject to personal opinion.

    ive always found that the buckhorn sights allow me to pick up my target quicker than typical iron sights, im able to drop the front post down into the bottom of that V almost instinvtively after all these years

    in contrast to having to fit the front sight into a notch on the rear sights that is barely the same size as the front post.

    and i find that the V rear sight allow for more pin point aim than military peeps.. i could drive nails with my kids .22 using the buckhorn sights


    sorry grif,

    i have no way to get pics online at the moment.. our two year old daughter recently punished our digi cam.. ill put up an illustration sometime this wekeend , will have to due until i borrow a cam from my brother in law..

    back to work... later fellas , Allen
     
  15. The old buckhorn sights served two purposes..... they allowed for a relatively fast sight picture but most importantly they served as a sort of range finder for big game hunting. Many years ago most hunting rifles with buckhorn style sights had a very basic size/range chart for deer/elk sized game that was superimposed with the buckhorn rear sight. Depending on how much of the animal was inside the buckhorns provided a rough estimate at how far away the animal was. It was not a precise way to measure range but apparently it was good enough to serve the hunters during the days before optical scopes and peep sights came out.
     
  16. Though they look similar there is quite a bit of difference between full and semi buckhorns.

    I have never cared for regular Buckhorns, too intrusive of the sight picture, and usually crude in design.
    [​IMG]


    Semi buckhorns vary, but I really like the ones on my Browning 1886 Winchester. The front sight has a bead, and it fits in the little notch at the bottom of the Semi buck horn leaf, which makes it very fast to acquire and hard to screw up. :)

    [​IMG]

    The thing with peeps is you use them both eyes open or you tend to shift focus.
     
  17. modified sights


    Bingo !!!

    somebody give that man a cigar! :D


    those semi buckhorns you posted look real close to grand dad's home spun iron sights.. and i swear they are the quickest iron sights with a truly fine point of aim that you will ever shoot.

    once your used to them, and snapping the front post down into that groove almost instinctively - you are where you need to be !

    thanks for chiming in - and posting that picture :D

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    i just read through this thread again, and im wondering if some folks might have missed the point of some of what ive posted...


    just to be sure that im being understood here..

    i am not claiming that old grand pop's modified elkhorn ( semi-buckhorn) sights will provide faster target aqcuisition than combat peep sights. that is not what im saying, not at all..

    in my opinion, there are two major advantages inherent to grandpa's old modified iron sights over combat systems and other hunting sights:

    1) extremely fast target aquisition in comparison to other types of iron sights that are intended for hunting..

    2) the potential for a greatly refined zero on the point of impact in comparison to combat sighting systems..

    that sums it up nicely.

    and those characteristics should be self explanatory as to why this particular set up is such an attractive configuration for use with the hi point carbine..

    i think i should add, i havent gone all out for the buckhorn configuration.. rather than removing material from the Halo, cutting it in half for making that wide V , i decided to leave the rear peep / halo intact.. and marked it with notches instead- for a reference points to enable quickly centering the front post.

    can see this type of notching plainly in onepoint's picture.

    [​IMG]

    im going to try and borrow a digital camera tommorrow for showing what ive done with the factory sights on my riffle..

    all else fails, ill break out my crayons ( ms paint ) and try to illustrate things well enough to get the idea across until i can get some pictures online..

    thanks for all the input and ideas fellas

    Allen
     
  18. illustrations

    i couldnt pick up a digi cam for taking any pictures today, did the best i could to illustrate the modifications i made to the hi-point factory sights.

    here is a pic of old grand dad's method of adapting riffle sights for use as a close range " brush gun "

    *if you click on the link, fullsize the image to be able to read the text

    http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q165/hondachoppermotherfucker/GrandpasBrushGunSights.jpg?

    even though i basically knew what kind of improvements i was after with doing the mods to these factory sights - i was sure that it would take several attempts to get something that i really liked.

    the first time proved to be a charm..

    the sights turned out great, very happy with the way they perfom - all the slop of the factory sights has been eliminated..

    *if you click on the link, fullsize the image to be able to read the text

    http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q165/hondachoppermotherfucker/hipointfirearmsforums.jpg?

    happy to say that i practiced 'double tap' combat shooting late this afternoon - my timing and my groups at 25 yards dont seem to have been affected at all.

    after making the mods to refine the factory sights - now i can also sandbag my riffle and pick off beer bottle caps from 25 yards all day long. i couldnt be happier with the improvements in performance..

    considering setting up my riffle witha trijicon illuminated iron sights type of system.. but for now , just happy with what i already have, and ready to get busy on the magazine extensions :twisted:
     
  19. Fenix

    Fenix Guest

    I like the first one you posted there, it seems ALOT more natural than other sights I'm familiar with (very few :p ) . The second one seems to be a matter of preference, I see its functionality but I can neither say I'm for or against them.