Failure NOT to partial feed S&W 457

Discussion in 'Gunsmith shop' started by GulfCoastGuy, Aug 27, 2015.

  1. GulfCoastGuy

    GulfCoastGuy Member

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    Have an odd problem thought I'd consult the brain trust.

    I have a S&W 457. Great piece, runs fine except for this one point.

    If I cycle a few rounds through it and then eject a partially loaded magazine then more often than not the top round has partially fed toward the feed ramp and the nose contacts the frame on the way out preventing the magazine from dropping out. When pulled out the top round often will be pulled from the mag and left rattling around in the frame.

    Like I said I have NO other complaints about this piece. If I had never tried to drop a partially empty mag I would have never known this was occurring.

    Any and all thoughts, comments, suggestions or questions are welcome.

    Here are some photos that show the issue. These are with snap caps but it happens with live rounds, too. The mag in the photos is factory; new. I received it yesterday. I have also placed both factory recoil springs on order from Brownells.

    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
  2. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    hmmm

    I have a S&W 457 also. It may have done that, I was having trouble with it
    "shooting low" as compared to all my other handguns. Instead of wasting
    ammo, I stopped shooting, and dropped the partial mag instead of "leaving it hot"
    for safety. IIRC (not sure) it might have done this also. I need to check that,
    but I have no snap cap and I do not usually shoot at home (much) with anything
    over a 22, due to neighbors. So I cannot confirm nor deny :(
    But I think it might have done that. Very Odd! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
     

  3. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    Is this cycling by hand or shooting?
     
  4. GulfCoastGuy

    GulfCoastGuy Member

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    I've seen it both ways.
     
  5. GulfCoastGuy

    GulfCoastGuy Member

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    Actually Mole has me feeling better. As I said, under continuous operation where the mag is emptied every time you'd never know anything was up. I really have had no apprehension about operating this piece. I'd just like to know what's going on and if it's a PROBLEM that's going to possibly bite me down the road.
     
  6. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    I'll see if I can get a couple of Snappers... Need some for a project anyway!
    I have 2 factory mags. S&W Forums says even the 8 round, 645, 4516 and
    equivalent magazines will fit the 457. The 7 rounders are the oddball, it seems.
    A 10 round mag for the other S&W's is available also :D
    I have other 45s that I shoot, not sure if I need to equip this nice little S&W
    for war, however... :rofl: "They" say you should have at least 6 mags for any
    handgun you own. I have that # for almost ALL other handguns, and nearly
    all rifles I own. It's a serious outlay of cash to outfit all your weapons! :eek:
    I might get an 8 rounder or 2, set it up for the 457 and call it good. Or not! ;)
     
  7. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    I'm saying under shooting conditions it's the recoil causing the next round to become unseated.
     
  8. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Could be, but this is a pretty soft-shooting pistol. I was thinking loose feed lips.
    Don't remember any actual FTF or FTE, no malfunctions to speak of... :confused:
     
  9. GulfCoastGuy

    GulfCoastGuy Member

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    Finding the standard 7 rounders (for 457) is getting to be tough. Most the usual outlets show them on back-order. Found the best price here:

    http://gregcotellc.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=108&products_id=1560

    That's what I thought at first till I started testing it with snap caps.
     
  10. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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  11. GulfCoastGuy

    GulfCoastGuy Member

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    But on a brand spanking new mag? That'll hurt.

    Gotta go, Still a workin' stiff.
     
  12. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    In normal operation, the slide will be closed when you drop the mag with rounds still in it, or the mag will be empty for a reload. If you are shooting and decide to stop and unload the weapon before emptying the magazine, the slide will be in the closed position. Proper procedure is to drop the magazine and then rack the slide to clear the weapon. If you are simply unloading your weapon after carrying it, the same procedure should be followed; drop the magazine and then clear the weapon. This slight nose up on the feed ramp will never occur naturally during the course of firing and is a non-issue. I have seen many 1911's and other weapons exhibit this same thing when hand racking snap caps. (you should NEVER be hand racking live rounds)

    .
     
  13. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    It drops a round if you fire and then unload, with rounds still in the mag.
    Just using snappers to try and figure out the malfunction...
     
  14. GulfCoastGuy

    GulfCoastGuy Member

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    Yeah, FB. If I hadn't seen it at the range (I believe I dropped the mag due to a failure) I'd be right with you. The low mag capacity of the 457 didn't exactly make it a favorite in the tactical competition scene so tactical mag changes wouldn't be common. With no other reason to drop a partial mag it's understandable that this wouldn't be seen much and reported even less - I hope. This could very easily just be a quirk of the piece.
     
  15. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    So, you are saying it did this with real ammo, bolt closed in a "tactical reload", right?

    Here's some info...

    "Michael Bane, well known shooter and writer, relates the following comment from a discussion with an Israeli security specialist and top firearms instructor:
    "We stopped teaching tactical reloads," he told me, "because the people who tried to do them kept getting killed."

    It's off "The Thinking Gunfighter" website.

    Back to the issue...I don't see how a bullet can do that without a seriously deep feed ramp, unless there's a lot of space under the bolt. For that to be true, then there must be a lip of some sort on the bolt face that reaches lower than that bolt, to catch the rim of the next round, and push it into battery.
    Then, there must be enough friction between the top bullet and the next one, that the next one is getting pushed forward a bit.

    Or, the mag lips are very loose. Do all your mags show the same thing?
     
  16. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    I think he did just what I was doing, stopped shooting with a partially loaded mag, and cleared the weapon... Only happened once for me, btw, but one out of one. That range has that as a rule, I believe.
    "Tactical Reloads" waste ammo, but MOLES DON'T!!!
    ;) :D



    Highlighted some things, added some.
    Just from his pix, it seems to have a very low feed ramp, extending under
    the front of the magazine. If a round noses out a bit, it catches and gets
    dislodged if the mag is dropped before it is empty.
     
  17. GulfCoastGuy

    GulfCoastGuy Member

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    Nope - I said I observed it after I dropped a mag after a failure - can't remember what kind. I only mentioned the Tactical Reload as a possible incident where OTHERS could have possibly observed the issue.

    Thanks - good to know.

    I HAD two with new springs that I replaced personally and it happened on both (at least on the snap caps which now seems to be suspect as a valid test). I've purchased a third new factory magazine and on the snap cap test it does the same thing. I only have one verifiable case on one magazine at the range that I can recall. It's amazing how a discussion like this makes you doubt what you previously thought you were sure of.


    The nose of the snap cap in the first two images is actually resting on the frame at the upper opening of the mag well. Just for clarification.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2015
  18. planosteve

    planosteve Lifetime Supporter

    4 more mags for my Ruger American 06 will run me about $ 120. I think 2 will do for now.
     
  19. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    OK, I'll give you that. I knew it did not look like an actual feed ramp, which is
    part of the barrel, but it looks like an extension of the feed ramp. HPFF is not
    exactly the S&W Forums, I think I'll sniff around over there... ;)
     
  20. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    That 6 was for "combat" handguns, and it was 10+ for "combat" rifles.
    Standard USMC loadout is 6+1 in the weapon for M16, IDK about sidearms.
    Most of the time grunts are not issued sidearms anyway... Right RACH? ;)