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I have said it more than once, take any cartridge chambered for a .308 bullet and neck it to .284, and you get a better cartridge.

My first experience with a 7mm cartridge came with my first purchase of a rifle. A friend and I went down to the local Rose’s store and picked a rifle out of the barrel in the sporting goods section. We both chose a Mauser, Me? An 8mm. He chose a 7mm. By the end of that afternoon after we visited the range, I wished that I had bought a 7mm Mauser too.

My second experience with a .284 cartridge was the 7-R, or as it was also called, 7mm International Rimmed. Cases were 30-30 Winchesters simply run through a 7-R full length sizing die. Bullets were the 145 grain Speer boat tail and powder was H335. Velocity was around 2000 FPS out of the Contender Pistol and it toppled the 200 meter ram with gusto.

In the 1970’s, gun writer Ken Waters worked up a wildcat for the lever action rifle. In the mid 1980’s Winchester legitimized it and offered the 7-30 Waters in their M94 lever action. A 30-30 case necked to .284, similar to the 7-R, but with a longer body and a shorter neck. A 120 grain Sierra reaches 2700 FPS with this cartridge out of the Winchester Model 94XTR.

The 7-80 Remington is simply the .308 Winchester necked to .284. And that’s about all I know about this cartridge. The Speer 145 grain boat tail bullet bests 2700 FPS out of the Remington Model 7. (This was my favorite all around hunting rifle / cartridge ever. Lost in the Great Fire of ‘99. I have never replaced it. I keep threatening to buy a Ruger Hawkeye Compact Laminate Stainless to replace it. I really need to do that.)

The 280 Remington is the 30-06 necked to .284. The shoulder has been pushed forward though. This is to prevent the action from closing if the round is chambered in a 270 Winchester rifle. This is my favorite Beanfield cartridge. The Speer 145 grain boat tail bullet gives 2900 FPS out of the 26" barreled Handi Grip Handi Rifle. The 165 grain Sierra will do a bit better than 2700. I have gotten more velocity, but I start getting flattened primers. And it’s probably superior out past 300-400 yards, but when those bullets are gone, I am back to the 245 grain pills. I just have had good luck with them.

The 7mm RUM (Remington Ultra Magnum). The cartridge is the 404 Jeffrey case necked to .284. I have a lot to say about this cartridge as I truly have a love / hate relationship with this one. The rifle was the Remington Model 700 Sendero.

Lets get the bad out of the way first. The cartridge is loud, and it kicks like an angry mule. It’s expensive. The cases are expensive, and they are hard to find. It burns a lot of powder, a pound of Retumbo will load around 70 cartridges. Only the bullets are inexpensive. And the cartridge is a known barrel burner

On the good side. This is the ultimate Beanfield rifle cartridge. And it is accurate. The 145 grain bullet is over 3400 FPS. It’s flat shooting. It behaves like a varmint bullet on deer though. Ever shot a groundhog with a 52 grain hollow point bullet traveling at almost 4000 FPS out of a 22-250? A hit in the boiler room of a deer will turn the internals into jelly. A hit into edible meat will destroy the meat. Aim small. The 7mm RUM is probably better served with a bullet in the 175 grain weight class. The 175 grain bullet will still reach 2700 FPS out of this cartridge.
 

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So you'd take the 7mm-08 over the 308? I thought about that a lot before I bought a new rifle. Often wish I'd made a different choice in caliber - but it is what it is. Maybe one day I'll buy a new barrel in the other caliber.
 
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So you'd take the 7mm-08 over the 308? I thought about that a lot before I bought a new rifle. Often wish I'd made a different choice in caliber - but it is what it is. Maybe one day I'll buy a new barrel in the other caliber.
Yes, I would take the 7/08 over the 308 every day of the week, all things being equal. The 7mm bullet is simply ballistically superior to the .308 bullet. For the .308 bullet to equal the ballistic effectiveness of the .284 bullet, the weight and velocity of the bullet has to increase and the recoil will increase as well.

Unfortunately all things are not equal. As popular as the .284 caliber is, the .308 caliber is more popular. At least in the US of A. I am fond of the FR8 rifle, it is only available in 7.62x51 (.308 Win). The Ruger Gunsite Scout is not available in 7/08. The H&R Survivor was not available in 7/08. Nor is the Henry Single Shot rifle available in 7/08. And while the Ruger American Predator is available in .308, it’s not with the 18 inch barrel, which is what I wanted.

A few years ago, I decided to downsize and upgrade. With that I decided to consolidate. My chosen cartridges to consolidate to were the 308 Win, 223 Remington, and 9mm Luger. None of these cartridges are my favorites. But I chose them because they seemed to be the most practical. And I do not dislike the cartridges, they are just not my favorites.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
So you'd take the 7mm-08 over the 308?
In an effort to be more concise and to the point. My favorite short action cartridges in order are:
  1. 7mm/08
  2. 260 Remington
  3. 308 Winchester
The 6.5 CM is a tweaked 260, and I thought long and hard about it and sometimes think I should have chosen it, but I am happy with my choice of 308.

My absolutely do not like the 243 Winchester and just by association, I do not like the 6CM as I also view it as a tweaked 243.
 

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IMHO, the 6.5mm/0.264" bullets have better ballistics.
Not to say that the 7mm hasn't worked over the years since it was demonstrated in the Spanish American War in Cuba.
From what I've read on the cast bullet forum, the 7mm does have an edge on 6.5mm with cast bullets.
So, there you go....
 
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IMHO, the 6.5mm/0.264" bullets have better ballistics.
Not to say that the 7mm hasn't worked over the years since it was demonstrated in the Spanish American War in Cuba.
From what I've read on the cast bullet forum, the 7mm does have an edge on 6.5mm with cast bullets.
So, there you go....
The 6.5‘s absolutely do have better ballistics, as do the 6.mm and the 5.56 for that matter. But those better ballistics are coming at 142, 107, and 78 grains. You can not rule out bullet weight as that factors in too. .308 has wonderful ballistics as well, at about 208 grains. At some point recoil becomes a factor. And don’t leave out velocity. You have to have the speed to make those ballistics work.

I think the sweet spot is about 7mm with 6.5 just a gnats hair behind.
 

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One point in favor of the 6 and 7 mm bullets is, they are actually some of the few bullets still readily available off the shelf at the LGS, and at non jacked prices to boot. Not that they were cheap to start with. Also, reloading bullets are there, along with .338 and .358.

Surprised you skipped the 7x57 and 7 RemMag, Greg. I have two milsurp rifles in 7 Mauser, and I really should have bought that Weatherby in 7 mm Mag. My SIL has a BAR in 7mm Mag. Sweet shooter.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Surprised you skipped the 7x57 and 7 RemMag,
Never owned those 2 cartridges. Just my friend who had the Mauser. I went whole hog with the 7 RUM.

I just listed the cartridges I actually owned in the threads I started.
 

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Surprised you skipped the 7x57 and 7 RemMag, Greg. I have two milsurp rifles in 7 Mauser, and I really should have bought that Weatherby in 7 mm Mag. My SIL has a BAR in 7mm Mag. Sweet shooter.
i had a 7mm Rem Mag for several years. Best rifle I ever owned! 5 shot, 1 hole groups at 100 yards wit Sierra 140 boattails and Reloder 22. Got scared of the recoil after my open heart surgery and sold it. Stupid me. At least it went to a good home
 

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Got scared of the recoil after my open heart surgery and sold it. Stupid me. At least it went to a good home
Know that feeling. :(

Due to the cervical problems I've got from being a male RN( aka 'lift help' ) for 23 years of helping lifting >400# patients(affectionately nicknamed 'land whales'), a couple of shots from a .22-250 heavy barrel varmint rifle is too much for me anymore. Sold everything >5.56 and only have 20GA shotguns with low base shells anymore. Shooting isn't fun anymore since anything more than 3 rounds gives you a headache + neck pain. Like this morning, the little & ring fingers on both hands are numb & tingly. So, .22LR & .17HMR is what I can still do for now....

Take care of yourselves....
 

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Know that feeling. :(

Due to the cervical problems I've got from being a male RN( aka 'lift help' ) for 23 years of helping lifting >400# patients(affectionately nicknamed 'land whales'), a couple of shots from a .22-250 heavy barrel varmint rifle is too much for me anymore. Sold everything >5.56 and only have 20GA shotguns with low base shells anymore. Shooting isn't fun anymore since anything more than 3 rounds gives you a headache + neck pain. Like this morning, the little & ring fingers on both hands are numb & tingly. So, .22LR & .17HMR is what I can still do for now....

Take care of yourselves....
Were (are) you a Corpsman? First time they wanted me to walk after OHS, they sent a cute little (5'0", 90#) nurse to help me. I'm 5 10, 215-220. I laughed (that hurt!) and asked her how she'd hold me if I went down. At that point she smiled and said "I'll be right back". About 5 minutes she came back with another nurse - a Marine Corpsman at 6 2 220 who looked like he benched Volkswagens. I felt very secure.
 

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I just listed the cartridges I actually owned in the threads I started.
The 6.5‘s absolutely do have better ballistics, as do the 6.mm and the 5.56 for that matter. But those better ballistics are coming at 142, 107, and 78 grains. You can not rule out bullet weight as that factors in too. .308 has wonderful ballistics as well, at about 208 grains. At some point recoil becomes a factor. And don’t leave out velocity. You have to have the speed to make those ballistics work.

I think the sweet spot is about 7mm with 6.5 just a gnats hair behind.
That right there is GOLD. Non-biased information from an experienced shooter/reloader.
 
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