FBI Releases Pro-2nd Amendment Statement, States the Importance of Armed Citizens in America

Discussion in '2nd Amendment' started by DIRSUPop, May 15, 2018.

  1. DIRSUPop

    DIRSUPop Supporting Member

    Active shooter incidents are defined as any incident involving one or more individuals who are actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill those within a populated area — gang or drug-related shootings notwithstanding.

    There were 50 active shooter incidents in 2016 and 2017 combined, leaving many to question if America is, in fact, safer when armed.

    However, a recent investigation by the FBI in April showed that, in numerous incidents involving active shooters, there were people who stopped them by use of a weapon.

    “Armed and unarmed citizens engaged the shooter in 10 incidents. They safely and successfully ended the shootings in eight of those incidents,” read the report. “Their selfless actions likely saved many lives.

    “The enhanced threat posed by active shooters and the swiftness with which active shooter incidents unfold support the importance of preparation by law enforcement officers and citizens alike.”

    Ten active shooters had been confronted by citizens, and eight of them ended successfully, according to The Daily Caller. Four of those eight shooters were stopped by a lawfully armed citizen.

    “In one incident, a citizen possessing a valid firearms permit exchanged gunfire with the shooter, causing the shooter to flee to another scene and continue shooting,” the report read.

    Yet, in the wake of so many gun shootings and violence, the call for disarming American citizens remains.

    According to Timothy Hsiao for The Federalist, it is not a matter of if guns increase violence, but if they are a good means of self-defense.

    “What matters is not the risk (or lack thereof) that guns pose to society, but simply whether guns are a reasonable means of self-defense,” wrote Hsiao, adding that to defend one’s life is a basic dignity that cannot be taken away in the name of “social utility.”

    “Rights function as moral ‘trump cards’ that override appeals to utility,” he said. “Like our right to life, our right to defend ourselves is a basic dignity that can’t be defeated just because it might produce a net benefit.”

    In nearly all national survey estimates, the result saw that defensive gun uses by victims were nearly as common as offensive uses by criminals.

    Though millions of Americans are legally permitted to carry firearms every day, most of them cite self-defense as the first and foremost reason to do so.

    “The overwhelming majority of the time, those guns are never drawn in anger,” wrote Paul Hsieh for Forbes. “But innocent civilians can and do sometimes use their guns in self-defense.”

    Any conversation, Hsieh added, that centers around firearm policy needs to acknowledge those that are saved by the legal use of guns and self-defense, such as those in the active shooter incidents.

    “The value of firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens should be measured in terms of lives saved or crimes prevented,” he said, “Not criminals killed.”
    Merle, CamoDeafie and marmelmm like this.
  2. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    This also reads like an article or press release. Did you write it? If not, please properly attribute it.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk [Moderator]

  3. ArmyScout

    ArmyScout Supporting Member

    One thing, just carrying a firearm is not enough. The carrier should be trained and fully competent with the firearm they are carrying. I have always been in favor of profession training.
  4. 1024Megabytes

    1024Megabytes Member

    I agree that all sane American citizens should have good professional firearm training. On my own initiative I have taken at least nine days of professional firearm training and will likely get more in the future. But we cannot create laws that mandate firearm training. The politicians will raise the bar so high and make the training cost so much that it will disqualify most of the general population from being armed.
    eldarbeast likes this.

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    They are doing that in TN right now for the firearms instructors. Making hard for them to teach at multiple ranges, taking away state certifications for many of the ranges. They are trying to squeeze down the volume of people to get their carry permits. Class prices may go up. Some instructors may get out of the business. This is coming from a lawyer acquaintance who is also a licensed firearm instructor.
  6. 1024Megabytes

    1024Megabytes Member

    I heard Tennessee is being taken over by outsiders that are moving in and voting in tyrants. Where are the people migrating from?

  7. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Statistics disagree with you.

    The Crime and Victimization Report pegs about 2/3 of all instances of DGU's not actually pulling the trigger. Lott estimates that about 90% of all DGU's don't pull the trigger. The top end of DGU's per year is around 2.5 million instances (CDC study). If we use the 90% figure, that means that 2,250,000 people per year have a DGU which doesn't include discharging the firearm.

    How much training is required to NOT pull the trigger? Right.

    So, for the majority of DGU's, as much as 2,250,000 people, just carrying (well displaying) a firearm really IS enough.

    I don't like this fact. I advocate for training. I take training and give training. But I can't be like the gun grabbers and ignore facts which I don't like or conflict with what I want. And the fact is that the majority of the time, little to no training, frankly, really is enough.

    Peace favor your sword,
    eldarbeast likes this.

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    Commie-fornia. They started their take over of Music Row back in the 90's. Nissan moved their US headquarters here from CA. Several years ago we had eMoms give cultural diversity classes to the TBI. I am sure that is still going on. Our RINO governor (Pilot/FLyingJ) is a criminal, pro-sharia, and a globalist. We have a woman who is the sharia finance advisor whose daddy is a known terrorist that lives in Waverly a podunk little town not to far from me. Fuktard guv wouldn't back up the Fellowship of Christian athletes at Vandy to deny muslims the right to be members. Club requirement is you have to confirm Jesus as your Lord and savior. He claimed "Vandy doesn't get government funds" bullshit. And refused to sign a passed referendum against Agenda21.
  9. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Turns out most people don't actually need it.

    Nine days huh? Guess how many days of training are required to go from white belt to yellow belt in Judo, never mind to get to Shodan (1st Degree Black Belt). :)

    I completely agree.

    Peace favor your sword,
    moona11, eldarbeast and 1024Megabytes like this.
  10. 1024Megabytes

    1024Megabytes Member

    LKLawson I am not claiming to be a great shooter or an expert after my firearm training, but I will not have a negligent discharge and I know gun safety. The courses I took were three handgun training classes and a four day rifle course. The training also made me better shot than I was before and most importantly it was an enjoyable set of vacations.

    I also go out shooting about once a month continually and I do dry practice with my pistol usually at least once a week.
  11. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I think you're missing my point. I'm not commenting on you in particular, but rather what your training says about the general concepts in the firearms community of what constitutes training.

    It's a really weird, Schizophrenic, mishmash. Many people insist that getting professional training is moral (if not legal) imperative for safe, responsible, and effective firearms use, even though the statistics show that is not necessarily true. Then the community goes on about what the training standards "should" be and it turns out to be barely what a martial artist needs to know to not hurt himself by warning up improperly. It's positively bi-polar.

    I remember listening to one highly respected firearms instructor (I certainly respect him) talk about his training resume on a podcast. Over the decades he has acquired a few hundred hours. I logged over 450 hours of martial arts training last year alone. Another instructor, Karl Rehn (also very very highly respected) reports a log of around 2400 hours of training over the several decades which he's been involved. That's a tad longer than most 1st Degree Black Belt promotion tracks; call it half-way to 2nd Degree or so. Even those martial arts which award 1st Degree in 3 years would still peg that at around 800-1,300 training hours. Even the most superficial "McDojo" schools (usually a TKD variant) require around 420 hours of training before 1st Degree (call it 2 years at 4 hours per week).

    In the Martial Arts world a first colored belt (usually yellow) is basically considered just a recognition that the student has an interest and probably isn't going to quit right away, may actually stick to the next belt, and requires around 15-25 hours of training depending on the system.

    Again, it's not about you. It's about crazy, fragged up concept of the value of "training" in the firearms community. You HAVE to get training or you're an irresponsible accident waiting to happen, but at the same time anything more than barely enough to be let off of a martial artists metaphorical mother's apron strings is an amazingly impressive amount of training. <boggle>

    Peace favor your sword,
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  12. adam01364

    adam01364 Lifetime Supporter

    I'd love to know if this statement came from the FBI - it'd make a great Letter to the Editor of my local left wingnut newspaper
    eldarbeast likes this.
  13. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    You might not be commenting on him, but I will.

    9 days of "professional" training means you'll NEVER have an ND ever again? FOH.
    mn_doggie, moona11 and RandyB like this.
  14. 1024Megabytes

    1024Megabytes Member

    Okay, I agree with you Rachgier. Saying something will never happen is bad. But I am far more likely to not have a negligent discharge with the firearm training I received. Bottom line is good firearm training makes you more proficient with your weapon and you are then a lot less likely to have a negligent discharge. But firearm training should not be mandated by law as the tyrants will use it to infringe the Second Amendment.
    ekim and eldarbeast like this.
  15. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    No it doesn't. How many cops have shot themselves in the leg or foot and even the ground at their feet while drawing? I read an article written by an instructor who uses himself as an example that an ND can happen to anyone when he shot himself in the ass with a holstered gun. Want to know how many ND's happen in the military?

    Practicing with your firearm makes you more proficient with your firearm. "Professional" training is just paying someone else to tell you how they think you should practice for proficiency with your firearm. That training only made you 99% more likely to pay someone else to tell you what to do. The only thing stopping you from having an ND, is you. You don't need a "professional" trainer to teach you how to help prevent ND's, just a little bit of common sense and some situational awareness.
    AresGraphix, moona11 and RandyB like this.
  16. eldarbeast

    eldarbeast Supporting Member

    Except when the ND is caused by the equipment you are using.
    For instance, Block handguns, and those handguns that are designed to have a Block trigger.

    From the first time I read about a Florida Sheriff's Deputy having an ND while holding a suspect against a wall in handcuffs surrounded by an unruly mob having his firearm discharge when the suspect rocked his head back onto the end of the Deputy's pistol;
    To the times a Block has discharged within a leather holster when a fold in the leather came into contact with the trigger;
    To the many times when a Block carried in a pocket discharged after interaction with a set of keys;
    To the numerous times a Block has discharged when the shooter's finger applied enough pressure with poor trigger control.

    These are the main reasons why I won't buy a Block or similar firearm - too many instances with ND's.

  17. 1024Megabytes

    1024Megabytes Member

    Two techniques anyone can use is to avoid some negligent discharges with handguns are the following:
    1) Very slowly re-holstering a pistol.
    2) When unholstering a handgun keep your finger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger. Never put your finger on the trigger until the sights are on your target and you are ready to shoot.

    Practice these techniques over and over until they become a habit. I have seen too many re-holster a pistol in a quick fashion and thought to myself, I am glad they did not shoot themselves this time. Do not reholster quickly. Make sure you have a good gun holster too that will not press on the trigger. This is also where a good mechanical gun safety may also help if it is engaged.

    eldarbeast likes this.
  18. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    Training talk is always funny. Like Kirk says 9 days???? how many to get this nice ninja belt??? Super Cop shoots himself in the leg, Bubba out shoots everyone in the state with zero training. Then because they are Military they are the experts. Funny story a buddy told me awhile back. While he worked for Blackwater He was with a bunch of former SEALS on several deployments. He witnessed several AD/NDs each deployment each time it was a SEAL. So much for best of the best. Training is not everything. ITs a great tool but there is always something or someone better with out it.
    mn_doggie likes this.
  19. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    How is that equipment failure? That's all dumbass preventable ND's cured by common sense and situational awareness. Even the idiot with the keys. Who stuffs a pistol with zero mechanical safeties in their pocket with absolutely no holster or protection to cover the trigger/guard then stuffs even more shit in the same pocket? If you're scared of a Glock because you don't know how to control a trigger, then just say so.

    And you needed to pay a professional to tell you that? It's common damn sense. Rule #1 Keep your booger hook off the bang switch. Face it. A paid for professional class is no more valuable yet much more costly then simple practice, due diligence, practice, research, practice, and more practice.
    moona11 and AresGraphix like this.
  20. mn_doggie

    mn_doggie Member

    I have been practicing walking for more than 6 decades. I have a lot of experience, muscle memory and habits formed in that area.

    I still trip.
    rtm, eldarbeast and ekim like this.
  21. eldarbeast

    eldarbeast Supporting Member

    Tens of thousands of people carry a weapon in their pockets without holsters.
    It's only when the 'safety' is in the trigger that problems occurred.