Finished With My 4595

Discussion in 'Hi-Point Carbines' started by sandog, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. sandog

    sandog Member

    I have my 4595 like I want it now.
    Pinned in the stupid springy butt plate, much better now that it's solid.
    I hated to spend nearly $180 (as much as I spent on the used carbine) on replacing the plastic rails with Aluminum ones, but now they are usable.
    Went with the extra long top rail to have a longer sight radius with the Magpul flip ups.

    I really didn't have confidence in the factory front sight, being clamped on with set screws down in dimples. If it were to get bumped and moved, it wouldn't have moved far (still down in the dimples) but enough to be off.
    This long rail really links everything together solidly.

    Optic is a Primary Arms Cyclops. 1x (no magnification) but the etched reticle and adjustable diopter are great features.
    Sling is a Vickers, I used them in the Army. And have them on all my carbines.
    I drilled out the factory swivels and put in some 1 1/4" swivels.

    Not real sold on the forward grips, but I had it already and wanted it on there when I did the paint so it would be the same. It probably won't be on there much. It has a Q.D. lever so easy to take off.
    If I put a light on it would probably be the OLight pistol light I have, a bit big and heavy for a pistol, but it is on the small size for a long gun light. It is 1350 lumen with a green laser, and would fit nicely on the rail under the barrel, and be fairly protected there.
    I also have a Surefire Dual Output (600 lumen) with wired end cap, and the Tango Down VG has a slot for the pressure plate to turn it off and on.

    I threaded the barrel last week, and had an A2 flash hider last time I shot it, but the groups opened up when it was on. I'll try it again when I go out shooting, but for now the muzzle just has a thread protector.
    Might have gone overboard on the camo job, I'd like the carbine to be a bit more tan/brown than green for the terrain around here so will fix that after the range trip Sunday.
    My dog always has to get into the picture !
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  2. FortyFiveAuto

    FortyFiveAuto Member

    Wow! That’s a lot of work!

    how much do you have in the rifle now, all told?

  3. sandog

    sandog Member

    As it is above, about $770. But I had some of the stuff already from trades or leftover from other builds.
    HP Carbine---$180
    Peck's Anyware Aluminum rails---$180
    Down Range Products thread protector---$10
    E-Bay 1 1/4" sling swivels ---$6
    That's what I spent since I got the carbine.

    These items I already had from trading with friends, or in the case of the optic, can always switch to another carbine if needed..
    Vickers Blue Force sling, Multicam---$45
    Tango Down Q.D. grip in FDE---$80
    Magpul BUIS in FDE---$80
    Primary Arms Cyclops 1x in FDE---$215 with active military/veteran/LEO discount

    And maybe $2 worth of spray paint used. The Rust-o-Leum matte camo paint is $4 a can from Walmart, and I have a lot left over for touchup.
    I had the tools already for threading, from doing AKs and Mini-30s, 5/8" x 24 tpi.
    The .578x 24 is the most common for .45 ACP, but I'd have had to buy a new die, so I just used the 5/8" x 24 that I already had.
    SWAGA likes this.
  4. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

    The carbine looks great. I especially like the use of the aluminum rail with the flip-up sights so that you could dispense with the old front sight.

    Out of curiosity, given that you notice your groups opening up with the flash suppressor installed, is there anything wonky about its internal dimensions that might be disrupting air flow around the projectile as it exits the muzzle?
  5. sandog

    sandog Member

    No, nothing wanky that I notice, but I also saw a degradation in groups with one of my Mini-30s, after changing the flash hider from a long cage Ruger one, to a .30 cal version of the A2.
    The long Ruger FH has slots all around, whereas the A2 is closed on the bottom.
    I like that, because it keeps muzzle blast from kicking up dust if you are shooting prone, and by gas having to go up, and not down when exiting, should lessen muzzle rise a bit ( like a slant FH on an AK).
    But by gases having to go up, and restricted from going down, maybe the A2 messes with the gas flow enough to open groups ?

    I'll try the A2 again next time out, but it didn't do well when I had the 4595 in the bullpup stock.
  6. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    A. Pull that under barrel rail. Without the FSP there it does nothing but flop and its junk to begin with.

    B. I thought Jerry with Longshot was expensive at $68 for his top rail and $43 for the bottom but dayum, $180? I hope you lubed up first. At least Longshot gives discounts to HPFF members.
    undeRGRound likes this.
  7. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    I’m thinking that A2 flashhider may be messing with your barrel harmonics.
    sandog likes this.
  8. sandog

    sandog Member

    Yes, the plastic bottom rail was junk, and sagging down without the FSP.
    This one is nicely machined aluminum, and doesn't sag. Without the FSP, I wouldn't want to put anything heavy on this one either, but it should handle the Olight pistol light if I ever put it there.

    The $180 was for 3 rails, 1 top and 2 bottom, with (internet) tax and shipping.
    The regular length Peck's top rail was also $68, but the 15.4" that I got was more $$$, I think $74.
    Bottom stock rail was $45, under barrel rail was $40. So prices seem to be in line with Longshot's.

    Here is the carbine before I put the rails and sights on:
    I believe you are right about the A2 SWAGA, I'll, give it one more try, if it doesn't work out the .45 cal A2 was only $12. Powder is 100% burned up with .45 ACP and 17.5" barrel anyway, so no biggie if it just has the thread protector.

    Here are pics of the Mini-30s, the one with synthetic stock weighs 7 lbs. 4 oz.
    The wood stock one weighs almost a pound more.
    undeRGRound likes this.
  9. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    I would have gone with the side rails, honestly.

    I mean, I did... laser on one side, flashlight on the other, intermittent switches for both in the FG.
  10. sandog

    sandog Member

    I did the side rail thing on my Mini-30s, worked out better that way.
    Flashlight mount on one side, sling mount on the other.

    For the 4595, I didn't need a side rail for the sling mount, already had a good one one there (the factory bolt with the sling stud).
    When I can do it, I much prefer having the flashlight/and or laser right under the barrel, better alignment with the beams, and better protection from catching on things than one hanging off to the side.
  11. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Not really. Lasers and flashlights are for up close work anyways so the offset angle is negligible. The gear I wore used to get hung up more often than the gear my rifles wore too. Just a matter of personal preference really.
  12. sandog

    sandog Member

    Flash lights and lasers on carbines and rifles sometimes get used at longer distances than handguns, off set can be an issue.
  13. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Not the way I was trained.
  14. sandog

    sandog Member

    Hey, I get it. You are always right, no one should ever dispute what you say.
  15. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    It's a pcc. At best it's good for 50 yards. Mine is a range toy only and it came with all the crap when I bought it, so at least I didn't sink $800 in to one just to find out it's not going to run any better than the stock version.
  16. sandog

    sandog Member

    The Aluminum rails are the only thing that are specific to this carbine, and even those can be taken off and sold, and the original rails put back on.
    Everything else can be used on another of my carbines.

    I typically range shoot at 75 yards with it, and can stretch that if need be.
    Just because you do things a certain way does not mean we all do, or should.
  17. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    I was shooting quarter sized groups at 75 yards with stock everything. But it’s still just a PCC.

    You don't have to take my advice if you don't want to. It's your gun to do with however you please. It's just that my way has managed to keep me, my teams, and my crews alive, so they come from experience.
  18. sandog

    sandog Member

    I will continue to be in awe of your awesomeness.
    Claymore likes this.
  19. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    My awesomeness also includes geometry. In this situation, specifically, 5 points on 2 intersecting lines on vertical planes.

    See, if your laser is offset to one side of your barrel it creates one line along a plane, while your bullet travels in a parabola located on the second plane. Since your so nifty, you probably sighted your laser to 75 yards, thus we'll need to discuss the +/- factor of the parabolic arc to include drag along the projective plane.

    It's about 6" of drop at 75y from the carbines? So your 75y zero means you've got a +/- 6" PBZ out to around 87y. Since your windage isn't going to be affected by gravity, the arc is somewhat irrelevant and we'll create the first line and vertical plane on that path.

    Now we have your laser sight set on a side rail that we'll say places it 1.5" from COB. This is the start of your second line and vertical plane. It's going to intersect the first line and plane at 75y. There's no arc, because it's a beam of light. Now because your laser and projectile's horizontal deviations never effectively change, we'll call them straight lines. Because they're straight lines on projective planes they form an 'X' with the intersection at 75y. That offset distance will still only be 1.5" at 150y. That gives you a MAXIMUM horizontal variation of 1.5" from 0 - 150y.

    That's it. Simple maths. Pythagoras even says your POI vs POA will NEVER be more than 6.19" off.

    Like I said earlier, the .19" from an offset laser is negligible.
    Frank2041 likes this.
  20. sandog

    sandog Member

    I doubt I'll ever have a laser on it, but thank you for spending all that time on calculations.
    Maybe you should get out of the house more.