First shots taken with 10mm carbine

Discussion in 'Hi-Point Carbines' started by Rlharwood, Dec 1, 2020.

  1. Rlharwood

    Rlharwood Member

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    I finally got the opportunity to shoot my new 10mm Hi-Point carbine today.
    I couldn't believe how little recoil I felt! The springs on the end of the stock really absorb a lot!
    Lots of fun to shoot!
     
  2. Nice, congratulations. The 1095TS is on my future gun purchase shortlist.

    Hopefully Redball can release their long awaited 20 round mags for it soon.
     

  3. Dagwood

    Dagwood Supporting Member

    Awesome! I love my 10mm carbine. It's not a HiPoint, it's a TNW ASR but it sure is a blast to shoot! Fun fun fun!!
     
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  4. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    More heresy inbound, but I also want a 10mm carbine. Prolly Kriss-Vector and then swap fcg for 45 acp also.
    I'm wanting to form 1 the thing for SBR.
    SONNY-BOI has the K-V 10mm pistol, its sweet! Got a can for it too... sweet stuff!
     
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  5. magnut

    magnut Member

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    I have not gotten my hands on one of these yet. Are you guys shooting full power 10mm in these or your basic 40s&w disguised as 10mm? Curious what the bolt weight is on these.

    information I am looking for that has held me off of purchasing one....

    Bolt weight on 40/45 vs the 10mm? Anyone taken a measurement?
     
  6. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Have not seen that bolt weight info... but I'd think it's fine for the full power stuff.

    My pet peeve about 10mm Ammo is exactly what you stated above. There is way too much 40 S&W "long" out there, but I don't buy it. I do have quite a few hundred rounds of a good "garden variety" 10mm for practice, and that is the Freedom Munitions 10mm. It has a reasonable MV in the 180gr size, and it is VERY Accurate and precise. Great deal, too. Or it used to be LOL

    My 10mm stash consists of quite a bit of Underwood, and some of that was purchased before they tamed it down around 50 FPS. Smokin' Stuff!
     
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  7. magnut

    magnut Member

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    There is not really a point to low powered 10mm IMO. Just go with a 40s&w which is an excellent round reguardless of what new fads are out there. not many guns can handle full power 10mm. 1911s cant IMO I dont care what delta elite owners say. They beat themselves to death. I am honestly amazed hi-point has managed to put out a 10mm blowback. Its in a whole different level than anything else. I would think they would have overcompensated bolt/slide weight as they always have done but if they did all the durability testing with low powered 10mm I expect there to be issues. Bolt weight will tell a lot of the tale on this. Springs dont really matter much. The heart of the Hi-points ability to withstand hot hot ammo has always been the overcompensation of slide mass. The springs are pretty weak...which is needed to slow down cycle time.

    So I am really curious... I actually dont use the carbines much but I might try the 10mm if the bolt weight is massive. If they do a pistol... which I was told they wil get to eventually...its going to need to be massive. Basically a beefed up long slide JHP.

    I have posted a lot of slide and bolt weight specs over the years on blowbacks to try and get folks to understand hi-points and they are impressive. A 10mm blowback to handle full power loads is going to need to be a monster. Simliar to the older fixed sight cf380 slide for the 380acp.... probably the most overcompensated blowback in firearms history.... which is why they are such kittens to shoot and wonderful pistols for females.
     
  8. magnut

    magnut Member

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    Here Part of a conversation I was having with a real gun guru I respect who could not wrap his head around Hi-points. I was posting slide weights try and make sense of it

    rough slide weights for hi-points.

    Haskell js45 (1st 45acp...very thick) ..... 1lb 8.7oz

    Stallard JS9 9mm...... 1lb 5.2oz

    Hi-point C9 (current 9mm) ....1lb 2.3oz

    Hi-point JHP (current polymer 45acp) ....1lb 10.3oz

    Hi-point JCP (current polymer 40s&w) ....1lb 8.6oz

    Hi-point cf380 (380acp)....1lb 2.1oz


    these are all well over Bill Holmes recommended bolt weights for blowback...45acp/12oz.....9mm/10oz. Hi-point gave themselves a tremendous amount of safety....which is why they can do things most other blowbacks cannot and are fairly pleasant to shoot in terms of recoil. The springs are make them no more difficult to rack than a soft sprung 1911. If they had heavy springs they would destroy the two piece zamak/steel barrel construction. They also would overide the limp magazine springs Hi-point likes to use.

    OK... so where does the 10mm bolt fit into this in terms of weight. The slide on a blowback pistol is the bolt. Thats kind of what I am looking for.
     
  9. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    You know....I don’t really GAF what the magic numbers are. The guns shoot, they shoot reliably, they shoot accurately (enough) and in my 10 mm carbine, my go-fast reloads worked fine. I’m never going to shoot enough to break the gun by wearing it out. I’ve never even taken a carbine down far enough to get the bolt alone, just no reason to do it.

    I also like the .40, the asshats that decided .40 wasn’t necessary because the 9 mm had better bullets these days, are the same asshats that helped the left do all kinds of bad crap, and now can’t find their butt because their heads are buried so deep in their asses.

    But there ARE weak 10 mm. For whatever reason, many commercial 10 mm FMJ type loads are getting no more velocity than .40 S&W, and that’s just sad.
     
  10. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    You saved yourself at the end...
    But peeps like MagnuT and Mole like to run full power 10mm so...
    IT MATTERS...

    I like the idea of 40S&W for some people but I Love the parent cartridge better!
    40 is great for a normal sized handgun no doubt. 10mm and large frame is a match made in Heaven! :D
     
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  11. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    What do you care if it beats itself to death. MOM will replace it for free.
     
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  12. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Large frame isn't heavenly for a CCW weapon, for me. I have several .40 compacts or subcompacts, and two duty size .40's, but the only "small" 10 mm I have is a Tanfoglio built EAA unit, which I never have sent to the mother ship to fix, so it's just a wonderful feeling CZ copy paperweight.
    It's a feed issue. I may resort to grinding some day.
     
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  13. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    That's the poly one if I remember correctly. Mine 8s the steel one and just works great.
     
  14. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    IMO you are doing it right, if you want a concealed carry weapon just use a Foughty!!

    10mm and long barrel really shines... I sold that clunker of a Glunk G20C to @planosteve and never missed it. The G21/LWD 6" slide and 6.6" barrel is like a totes different weapon, smooth shooter and easily managed. Big Bro @Rachgier says he can load Foughty up to 10mm specs anyway, if one wants to go that route. Max out the short barrels... but my Big 10 is dialed in and is pleasant to shoot with the hottest 10mm stuff!!
     
  15. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    I load .40 hot for my 4095.

    I load 10mm hot for my Glock.
     
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  16. magnut

    magnut Member

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    Its just part of the process of learning about the design and what its limitations are. The numbers are a big part of that. You might not have to shoot the gun much at all to wear it out if the bolt is not substantial enough. Like I said earlier.... 10mm full power is a different animal and has a massive presure curve compared to something like 45acp. A downloaded 10mm lower power round would probably be even less of an issue on the gun than the 40s&w. Although 40s&w has been weakened a little over the last few years as well so its hard to say.

    I can tell you a 9mm hipoint carbine bolt comes in at 1lb 5.2oz (same as the JS9) so it can handle some hot, hot loads. One of My hi-point builds was a trail gun I made from a C9. I picked the old fixed sight slide because it was slightly heavier and thicker......Original C9 slide comes in at 1lb 3.5oz while the newer slides are 1lb 2.3oz. Anyways I wanted the simplicity and durability of the design built as strong as possible to deal with some truely hot loads. That C9 will withstand Hirtzenberger ammo with ease. The only other 9mm I have run that can withstand that ammo long term is the Ruger P85/89. Not bad for a cheap blowback zamak gun. A VP70z can probably take it but they kind of cheat on the blowback design fundamentals. Plus I never had the guts to run Hirtz in my VP70z.

    There are some gutsy people that claim to have run 45 super in the Hi-point 45. How much I never got a response. 45acp runs at 21,000psi..... 45super comes in at 28,000psi (big jump). Is it legit or internet BS I dont know but it definitly caught my attention. Only factory spec gun I remember that could handle 45 super with ease is the HK USP45.

    So this is what the numbers are all about. They are not really magic.... just specs. When you know the specs it gives you an idea on what the limitations are. Its a big reason why gun like the 1911 in 45acp (again 21,000psi) can run and run for a long time over many thousands of rounds without major component failure. Meanwhile the same design in 10mm beats itself to death with nowhere near the same round count. 10mm operates at 37,500psi.... again....10mm is just an entirely different animal. Most 10mm cannot handle the cartridge.
     
  17. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    How does that warranty work again
     
  18. magnut

    magnut Member

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    The glock 20 and 40 are one of the only 10mms that can handle the full power stuff. Noth sure if the springfield or grand power can. The original Bren ten could not handle full house 10mm either.... although it seems like it could/should.

    More mass to the slide/bolt the better. Thats how you deal with the spike..... weight/mass slows down the cycle. Springs dont really matter other than to reduce slide battering. Go too high on the recoil springs and you speed the cycle back up and have all sorts of other problems. This is where frame buffer systems can become useful. It allows you to keep down the cycle time while still preventing frame battering.

    Back to the hipoint carbine 10mm. I have not found any videos of a detailed dissasembly of the carbine yet. I would hope hi-point has some sort of buffer system on the 10mm. Again... 10mm is different animal..... in a straight blowback I am pretty amazed they pulled it off with Zamak if it can handle the full power stuff. I am even curious on the barrel inside the zamak housing long term. For pistols.... I dont think a 10mm hipoint pistol is possible without a major design change. But they have suprised me before.

    Positive to all this is we have all these companies dabble with the 10mm which has never been the case. Its a truely excellent round that can get you into automag territory instead of trying to make revolver cartridges fit semi autos. Be nice if we could get some more offerenigs in 45win mag, 357 sig, 460rowland, 7.62x25 etc. Even the 32NAA is a nice round. Its great to see 10mm get some popularity going though......finally.
     
  19. surby

    surby Member

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    fyi, on a recent (2020 make) 1095, the bolt including the firing pin, springs and bolt retainer weighs 842.9g (29.73 oz) and 831.8 g (29.34 oz) without the extras...though the extras are part of the reciprocating mass.
     
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  20. magnut

    magnut Member

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    Excellent, thank you very much. Do they use any sort of buffer system that you know of to cushion the bolt impact at the end of its travel rearward?

    One more... Is the barrel encased in Zamak like all other Carbines/pistols?