Fixing to buy a MSR. Any good deals out there?

Discussion in 'General Firearms Discussion' started by 22pistol, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Nothing fancy. A nice solid rifle. I had a M&P sporter but sold it a while back.


    All input is apprecicated!
     
  2. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Define "Good Deal."

    What is your price range and what is your level of "quality?"

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     

  3. Price? Depends on the rifle. Looking for best deal.

    Quality? Something decent. I’m not interested in fixing it every time I shoot it.
     
  4. Budget range? $350ish to couple grand, depending on model and options and brands (have not really seen a reason for an AR to cost nearly 2 grand except for specific retro furniture/builds)
    Interested in build kits, if so, how far? Kits available from Totally disassembled builder's (needs some additional tools and vise) kits to complete uppers/lowers that just needs to be pinned together?
    Prefer something ready to shoot?

    Of course, it also depends on what caliber and specific type of MSR you want.
    For 5.56/.223, the AR is a solid option, ranging from entry level to very high end options (special lowers, ultra light, varmint slaying long range barrel options, materials)
    For any AR length cartridge, again AR is solid platform, though prices trends up

    For .308 Win or associated wildcats; theres less options, most are expensive. Old days, you could get a FAL, or HK91 types for decent prices... although, I don't really know what imports are available currently; but theres the AR10 range, some good models, most confusing are the magazine options, you got choices of Armalite pattern, M1A/M14 pattern, DPMS, SR25 and maybe one other I don't remember? Wasn't there a model that took STANAG G3 type magazines?
    Then theres the Springfield M1A, a family of guns which are revered and has quite a large following
    Not sure what other US made models are as prolific as these two.

    For the Combloc 7.62x39 cartridge... standby are the AK pattern guns, several country made them and sent to the US before the import bans, but theres also the SKS(though prices are in range of ARs), and the AR47 models, and a few other semiautos, I believe VEPR and Saiga are the current offerings of imported sporters, or did they very recently get banned from imports?

    I'm very sure someone will come along and correct me on some things and expand on other things.

    I suppose the standard is the AR types, both the 5.56 and the .308 lengths. PSA sells decent kits when in stock and on sale.. SARCO had a few great priced kits but are currently out of stock. My current AR is a .223 Wylde 16" M4 style carbine from them.
    Delta team tactical has good prices as well for builders kits.

    Model 1 Sales offers the retro build parts such as the A1 and A2 parts, CAR and Commando parts, and other things. Can also get Novak Spud lower thats available in 2 options for the retro crowd, those are pricey though. JSE surplus site used to have a lot of retro stuff but they seem to not have had much in stock lately?

    Edit: I would go AR, if only because parts are everywhere and available, and its hugely modular, theres likely a setup that ticks all the right boxes just for you somewhere.
     
  5. JCE

    JCE Vladof Member

  6. Here's a few parameters/options I am entertaining.
    -Like to keep it under $700. TO START.
    -Not wanting to build one.
    -5.56/223 caliber to start, possibly a 9mm upper later?
    -are 22LR conversions available and viable?
    -My thought is to have a rifle that I can use as a home defense tool AND be able to take out and shoot at a distance.

    Thats what I can think of now
     
  7. Dane

    Dane + unkown number of likes Supporting Member

    Buy a complete upper and complete lower. Then assemble with two pins. Above deal by TTT should be under $500.
    I suggest a complete 22 rifle. Almost same price and will get you another complete rifle. Example: CDNN has Colt M4 22s for $300 and $350 with a quad rail forend.

    https://www.cdnnsports.com/firearms.html#pg=3
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
    ajole likes this.
  8. Concur with complete upper and lower. Since you said price of under $700; this means you should be able to get quality parts for most everything. Mid length gas system, 16" barrel, can be found for great prices. Keymod, Magpul MOE, M-Lok, older free float, or standard round handguards?
    I would would think it possible to find such a good complete upper..

    For both distace and home defense, I believe the midlength gas 16" barrels are a good compromise between "standard defense carbine" and 20+" barreled" longer range varmint thumpers"
    Granted, even the standard carbine length and 16" barrels have been good for me, just gotta be tuned just right to hit decent distances.

    Twist rate, that depends on your ammo choices.

    1:7 is the usual rate, good with common 60gr-80gr bullets, 1:8 can go lighter, and 1:9 as well. Old 1:12 seems ideal for lightweight bullets of 40gr-55gr range.
    If your primary ammo will be in the 60-80 gr, 1:7 may be ideal, but it also depends on length of barrel and how everything else runs.
    My SARCO build was done a couple years ago for about $500 altogether; may have actually been less, been a while.
    1:8 twist, .223 Wylde, carbine gas, 16" m4 style barrel, standard flat top and m4 stock. 20160820_091451.jpg
    When I started to put it together, had threaded the rear stock on before taking off to build lower; and went to a friends to use a vise and torque wrench to attach barrel on after removing FSB. It came with the FSB already attached to the barrel. Only required both roll pin and solid pin punch set, rubber ended mallet, vise, armorers tool (awesome for barrel and delta ring, and stock), and a torque wrench. Everything else required standard hand tools.
    20160822_102244.jpg
    All assembled.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  9. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Hell, for $800 you can spec and build an AR10. I just started ordering parts for mine.

    For $650 you can buy a complete upper and complete lower and pin together a PA10.
     
    JCE and TNTRAILERTRASH like this.
  10. Dane

    Dane + unkown number of likes Supporting Member

    Is Delton any good? Complete rifle $540

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    DELTON AR15 ECHO 316 556 NATO B5 SYSTEM
     
  11. TNTRAILERTRASH

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    I ain't listening to you............
     
  12. TNTRAILERTRASH

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    My nephew got one from Rural King. $367 no dust cover or forward assist. It went bang! I sent him the Wolff reduced power spring and it was very sweet. Nitride barrel. Melanite is disappearing quickly as a barrel treatment in the low end stuff.
     
  13. Dane

    Dane + unkown number of likes Supporting Member

    This must be an upgrade from that model.
    Many review available. Here is one.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018 at 12:13 AM
  14. TNTRAILERTRASH

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018 at 12:49 AM
  15. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    28,183
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    NE Utah
    Delton used to supply parts to the big boys, like DPMS they decided to build the guns themselves and sell them, so yes, they are good. It's was funny listening to people bad mouth them as cheap, when they had the EXACT same parts in their more expensive "name brand" guns.

    I had one, about $475 into it at a local chain store, traded it for the G20. It ran fine
     
  16. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    28,183
    1,528
    NE Utah
    Yes, the CMMG and Ciener units work ok, but...Dane is mostly right.

    They look like this, a bolt/adapter, and a mag:

    [​IMG]

    I concur, except...$300-$350 isn't "almost" the same as $175.

    I have two of the CMMG conversion bolts, they slip into the regular .223/5.56 upper, just like the regular BCG, take a specific mag, and let you run your regular AR as a .22.

    BUT...it's not all peaches and cream. The 5.56/.223 barrel isn't going to be as accurate as a real .22LR barrel would be, they are OK for short range but out past 50 yards the sights will be off quite a bit, and as Dane said...you don't have another gun, as you would have with an actual .22 AR.
     
  17. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    I've had nothing but problems form those units.

    I would go with the dedicated upper for sure