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I am wondering if Flechette rounds would be good for anything, I was always rather facinated by the concept and would love to see a small Sabot round much like a APFSDS tank round.

Is is feasible?
 

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Quote "Is is feasible? "

Since the US military has used them they are certainly feasible for a government entity. some state laws may forbid them for civilians. I have in the past seen them on sale for reloading purposes. The come in different lengths.
 

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you're talking about two different concepts. A flechette round is a shotgun style round filled with small darts that are fin stabilized. a APFSDS round is a single heavy metal projectile encased in a sabot. yes flechette rounds are possible in a 12 GA. it had been experimented with by the military during the SPEW, SCIMITAR and FLYER projects. they are less effective than plain old buckshot. The military spent over a billion dollars to find out that plain old .33 caliber lead balls were better than anything thier whiz kids could come up with.

now a sabot style dart projectile? that has possibilities. IF you had the ability to custom mold a sabot, had a suitable projectile and didnt violate any laws about armor piercing ammo in the process (almost a sure thing when working with a firearm projectile made of steel, tungsten or heavy metals that arent in shot form). the closest thing is a modern rifle or pistol bullet in a standard sabot liek these:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=322BLS350

i have entertained the idea of nesting sabots and using one of these plus a 50 cal MMP sabot from here:

http://www.mmpsabots.com/

and loading a 44 caliber 300-400 grain rifle bullet. feasible but expensive. you would have a 15$ per round shotgun shell by the time you were done. but you would have a 400 grain bulet zipping at about 3400 FPS max by my calcualtions. difficult, expensive and time consuming. sounds like my kind of project.

a APFSDS round like a tank shell isnt really feasable with what reloaders have available. a nested sabot combination is the closest we can get in velocity and lb-ft of power without violating any laws.

SW

ETA barnetmill- the governemntal use was in 155mm artillery guns so the crews had close in use against mass charges of infantry. they phased them out after vietnam and they are no longer manufactured. they do make cannister rounds however which -you guessed it- are filled with tungsten 00 buckshot.
 

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Silicon Wolverine flechettes were loaded by the US military into shotgun rounds. I do not know if they were deployed in combat. I am also aware that they were also loaded into cannon rounds.
 

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Silicon Wolverine flechettes were loaded by the US military into shotgun rounds. I do not know if they were deployed in combat. I am also aware that they were also loaded into cannon rounds.
that wa during the SPEW project. they were never deployed in active service like the 155mm rounds were.

SW
 

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The 12 ga flechette rounds were used in Vietnam. As you said they never amounted to anything other than more waste of tax payer dollars.
 

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It is my understanding that flechette loads for shotguns are being considered now for home defense rounds, due to their ability to penetrate body armor. Not military grade vests, mind you, but the kind of stuff your average BG might get his hands on, something that might stop buckshot, or a pistol round.

Also, the light weight of the projectiles means that after the initial penetration, whether it be a body, wall, etc., a lot of the inertia is lost, so over-penetration is not necessarily a worry, unlike a pistol round or 00 buck. Thus, a person who lives in an apartment, or who has children in another room of the house, might not have to worry so much about stray projectiles harming an innocent.

I think one reason that they were useless in Vietnam is due to the light weight of the flechettes... passing through foliage, or even moderate rain, could easily deflect something as long and light as a flechette.
 

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Part of the problems that I read about were that a lot of the 12 ga flechette loads ended up sending half the flechettes downrange sideways. Made the shotguns even more inaccurate and wasn't as injury producing as you'd expect basically.
 

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the largest problem with a flechette projectile is you get a bunch of needle-esq wounds that bleed realtivly slowly compared to a buckshot wound. in "Assault weapons Vol 4" Jack lewis talked to one of the SPEW peoject advisors. He said that rounds tested on live targets (pigs i think) created lots of small wounds but nothing that was immediatly life threatening. Buckshot would open up gaping woulds that made a target bleed out in less than a miunute.

ETA wiki link for SPIW, SALVO and NIBLICK project.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Purpose_Individual_Weapon

SW
 

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And then there is that thing that only the US abides by, the Geneva Convention. As I recall there was an issue, or we believed there was an issue with deploying them and claiming to follow it.
Let us not forget the Beehive rounds for the 40 mm M203 and the M 60 beehive tank round. I had a friend that I served with back in the 80's who told a story of being overrun by the enemy in Vietnam and dropping the 155s down parallel to the ground and fired flechettes point blank. He said EVERYTHING was nailed to the trees from the enemy to butterflies! At least they worked.
 

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I've heard of someone who enjoyed custom loading shotgun shells and had a pet round of flechettes + buckshot. I've never been sure as to the exact need other than the flechettes provided a more penetrative component. Perhaps someone more familar might see an advantage or inherent disadvantage to such combinations. It really just presented as nothing more than a novel idea...but there may be something there.
 

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I we are going to talk about what fired flechetts lets not leave out the M551 Sheridan. It fired 10,000 in one shot from it’s 152mm gun. The first time it was used in Vietnam it scored 82 VC kills with one shot.
 

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the largest problem with a flechette projectile is you get a bunch of needle-esq wounds that bleed realtivly slowly compared to a buckshot wound. in "Assault weapons Vol 4" Jack lewis talked to one of the SPEW peoject advisors. He said that rounds tested on live targets (pigs i think) created lots of small wounds but nothing that was immediatly life threatening. Buckshot would open up gaping woulds that made a target bleed out in less than a miunute.

ETA wiki link for SPIW, SALVO and NIBLICK project.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Purpose_Individual_Weapon

SW
This is true when loaded into a shotgun round. These little guys are meant to be dispersed into the slipstream ahead of the rocket, or projectile(this is where you get the velocity needed to shred flesh and other soft targets). When done so, the results are akin to something you would see in a "Saw" movie. But when shot out of a shotgun, they lack the group mass and velocity to do real damage.
 
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