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Okay heres a little food for thought. For all of you guys out there that are so strong on an unregulated free market and also so strong on the government not giving money to poor people that need it. What happens when you get laid off from the only employer in your town, you have several kids, and your wife just developed a debilitating mental illness, are you not going to stand in line for unemployment? Are you not going to use government assistance like food stamps? Will you le your children starve because you dont believe in taxes and government giving other peoples money away? I hardly believe any of you wouldnt take what you could get from the government.
The scenario I mentioned above is exactly what happend to my father in 2001 when I was 14, He worked at a lime stone mine just outside of town, his entire crew got laid off out of the blue one day because they had been there too long and made too much money, there were no other jobs in town, he worked hard for us everyday of his life until they wouldnt let him. The the next month my mother was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrina with early symptoms of alzheimer's disease. She could not work a job. plain and simple. Without my fathers unemployment benefits and my mother recieving disability, my family would have starved, and we would have lost our property and house that took us oh so many years to build. I guess until you are put into a position where you do need help because a free market capitolist society alowed a giant corperation to be so damn greedy, you are gonna keep running your mouth about taxes and welfare.
 

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It's not about giving money to people who are poor. It's about those peolpe who abuse the system, who keep having more kids to get more money, who are able to work but not willing because they can get money without working for it. Your family had every right to get every dollar's worth of assistance and them some. You situation was different.
 

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The GAO put out a report a while ago, and it basically said that the majority of people who take welfare fit this profile:

Single mother, gets on welfare because of divorce/death/unfortunate circumstace, stays on welfare until she gets new job training/college, gets off welfare, gets a real job, pays more in taxes over the next 10 years that she took from welfare.

That is the most common scenario. The most PUBLICIZED scenario is "Deadbeat mother/father, has lots of kids to get welfare, lets kids run around, abuses system, kids in jail for meth etc etc etc".

The welfare reform that we need is "Weed out the abuse", the welfare reform that people seem to push for is "Well the system is broken, we might as well scrap it"
 

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^^What he said.
 

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WOW.... a topic on here where I agree with the majority :wideeyed2:

The trick to any system, no matter if it's political, financial or even educational, is that SOMEONE will always try to exploit it. To get more than their fair share, and they will always have a way to justify it's abuse. That's the biggest trick of those running the system, no matter what kind it is: To make sure those who NEED the help get it before and in spite of those who want to take from the system simply because they can.
 

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It's not about giving money to people who are poor. It's about those peolpe who abuse the system, who keep having more kids to get more money, who are able to work but not willing because they can get money without working for it. Your family had every right to get every dollar's worth of assistance and them some. You situation was different.
+1
I have NO problem helping those in need through no fault of their own.
As recently as the past month I have raised money, donated time and made food donations for those less fortunate than myself.

I have an issue with the bums who don't want to work and who abuse the system because they are just plain lazy.

If a man loses his job or a family has medical issues, that type of thing I support helping those people 100%. As stated in posts on the mandatory volunteerism thread, I've done goodwill and charitable work all my adult life and I'll continue to do so on a volunteer basis.
I have donated money and goods but most importantly I have donated time to helping others.

If someone truly needs help and is not just a leech on society then that person or family should get help.
 

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The welfare reform that we need is "Weed out the abuse", the welfare reform that people seem to push for is "Well the system is broken, we might as well scrap it"
i'm sorry, did you say "we need weed"? thats what i heard.....ok, if you insist

but seriously, when i was 21 i was newly married, with a college degree, working with troubled youth for $10/hour and my wife worked part time. we were responsible, no debt (except student loans), cheap apartment, cheap car, you get the idea. suddenly baby number 1 makes his presence known (yeah, he was a suprise). my job's healthcare plan was 60% of my take home pay, so i didnt carry it. we needed health care, so we went on medicaid. tell me what i could have done differently 47_masoN_47
 

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When that situation happens you shouldn't go to the government for help. You go to family and close personal friends, if they can't help you turn to you church or community for help. If the government didn't take a third of my income to pay for social services I would have even more to give to charity to help out people in those exact situations. "We the People" is the solution to so many problems in this country. Every time something goes wrong we shouldn't turn to the government to fix it. The government is the problem not the solution.
 

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When I was out of work in the 90's, for a short time we were on public assistance. The short length of time we were on it showed us it's pitfalls. It seemed to us that the more you attempted to better yourself and become self-supporting, the more you were punished. When I got a temp job, working only 1 or 2 days a week, with 4 kids, they would call me in as if I were a criminal.

Then the next month you would get a notice to repay in cash, for the amount of food stamps you were overpaid. Hardly an incentive to work your way off of welfare. I can see why others would learn real quick how to work the system.
 

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I need help, someone call 911. Neo and I agreed on something at least twice in one week.
Deadbeat. One little thing happens, and already you are calling the gov't for assistance.
Not one little thing, this is actually pretty serious. I have now found myself in agreement with Neo 4 times within 1 week.

Sing along, It's the end of the world as we know it...
 

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When that situation happens you shouldn't go to the government for help. You go to family and close personal friends, if they can't help you turn to you church or community for help. If the government didn't take a third of my income to pay for social services I would have even more to give to charity to help out people in those exact situations. "We the People" is the solution to so many problems in this country. Every time something goes wrong we shouldn't turn to the government to fix it. The government is the problem not the solution.
i dont know what planet you live on that churches provide health insurance. we didn't need a monetary handout, we needed healthcare to cover the thousands and thousands of dollars to cover prenatal care and the birth. do you know how much it costs to give birth in a hospital without insurance? do you know how much an ultrasound costs without insurance?
 

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When I was out of work in the 90's, for a short time we were on public assistance. The short length of time we were on it showed us it's pitfalls. It seemed to us that the more you attempted to better yourself and become self-supporting, the more you were punished. When I got a temp job, working only 1 or 2 days a week, with 4 kids, they would call me in as if I were a criminal.

Then the next month you would get a notice to repay in cash, for the amount of food stamps you were overpaid. Hardly an incentive to work your way off of welfare. I can see why others would learn real quick how to work the system.
This is one of the bigger problems I see with the system, and its one that is actually getting work done on it. The way the system works its better to stay fully on welfare than to take whatever work you can find, because the income you'd get from the job, even if it was less than welfare was paying you, would kick you out of the welfare system. The current administration is working to make it so that the benefits scale down based on you income, so that you can be working while recieving partial benefits, and eventually make your way totally off the system.
 

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I dont know what planet you live on that churches provide health insurance. we didn't need a monetary handout, we needed healthcare to cover the thousands and thousands of dollars to cover prenatal care and the birth. do you know how much it costs to give birth in a hospital without insurance? do you know how much an ultrasound costs without insurance?
There are actually several hospitals run by religous organizations all over the country that help in this exact circumstance. They provided discounted rates and long term payment plans. Many also even forgive entire bills for those who can't afford them. Almost the exact situation my brother faced about a year and a half ago.
 

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Not usually something that I share with the masses, but I think I may have something to add, so here goes.


Welfare... Do I agree with it? No. I believe that everyone should be able to go out and get a job, earn a living, and provide for themselves and their families. In a perfect world right?

Is it a necessary program? Does it serve a purpose? Yes, for those that are either mentally, physically, psychologically *mentally ill* unable to work or the elderly.

Now, saying all that, which is my opinion of welfare, the reality is quite different.

Growing up in Minnesota, my stepfather had a good job and we were very well provided for. However, when I was 9 years old, myself, my twin sister and older brother went to school one day and he was there, when we got home, he was gone and I haven't seen him since. Now, my mother at that time had no marketable skills, no professional education to allow her to get a good job. So, welfare it was. AFDC, or Aid for Families with Dependant Children, was our bread and butter. We got government commodities, as did 90% of the people that lived in the area we did. Personally, I hated the hell out of it, as the "haves" like to look down on the "have nots" and kids are cruel. So, we got food stamps, commodities and $600.00 a month to live on.

Now, while this was going on, my Mom started college to get a degree in Small Business Management, and started a home business, and we got off the system. But trying to raise 3 kids on her own, it was too much for her to do, so it was back on welfare. This was when I was around 12 I think, and so, during the summer, my brother, sister and I all took summer jobs just to help out. Joe worked on the pig farm a mile from the house slopping pigs, I worked at the Dairy right across the street, and Sarah took a job cleaning rooms at the Super 8 Motel that was managed by members of our church. Us kids didn't make much, I was paid $20.00 a week, as was my brother, and Sarah made the most money. Anyway, on Fridays, I'd always get my check, take it to the corner store to cash it and buy myself a pack of baseball cards, my brother a pack of football cards, my mom a candy bar, and my sister an ice cream cone. It was usually less than $3.00 back then, so I still had at least $15.00 or more left over. As soon as I'd pass out the goodies, I always gave the rest of it to my mom to help out with bills. It wasn't anything I had to do, but I did it so it would make it easier on her, and on the rest of us. As a teenager, I always had a job, and I'd always give most of my pay to my mom, because I detested being subject to buying food with food stamps, eating that nasty ass government cheese, and just the general feeling as if I wasn't doing my job to provide for my family. For a man, or even a young boy, it's a pride thing, and my pride really got in the way for me to actually enjoy my teenage years. In High School, I had a full time job and went to school, being that I was home schooled, it was easy to do. Of course, that was back when the minimum wage was $5.00 a hour or less, I don't exactly remember. Since then, I have ALWAYS had a job, and even when times were ROUGH, I refused to do 2 things: 1, I refused to take any government assistance of any kind. 2, I refused to sell my guns, pawn them, whatever just to buy the things I needed. I always went out and found extra work, even mundane odd jobs, just to put food on the table. I've had hard times even when I was running my own business, and it was tough to buy food for my wife and myself. Hell, I'd go from one job for my company, then go to the local Labor Finders just for the work today, pay today check. I'd work 5 hours just to buy a box of cereal and a gallon of milk so my wife could eat breakfast the next day. This was while my wife had a full time job working for Wal-Mart, so it's not like we were lazy and didn't want to work, times were just that hard.

The thing I hate about the welfare system is that it makes people lazy. As long as they can sit on their fat asses watching the boob tube and get paid enough money to pay their rent, utilities and pay for food, what motivation do they have to get off their ass and get a job? What sense of pride does it instill in them or their children, who I guarantee are watching their parents, wondering WTF they are thinking to do nothing with their lives?

Ya know, for years after I moved out of my Moms house and was on my own I resented her for the decisions she made. For putting us on welfare, for the government cheese, for the embarrassment of sending me into the store to pay with foodstamps in front of all of my friends. I resented all of that, even though, at the time, there was nothing else we could have done to survive. As the years have passed, I realized that my Mom did the best she could with what she had to work with and I have blessed her for being such a great Mom, even though it was the hardest thing she's ever had to do. I've talked to her about it, and she has admitted to me that the reason she had us kids go pay with the foodstamps, is because she felt as if she'd failed us by putting us through it. Of course, going through it, I felt the same way but the reality of it was quite different. I also never took into consideration her feelings on it, as she never offered us her opinion, we were left to wonder what exactly it was she was doing and why. Of course, we all were forced to deal with the abandonment of the male figure in our lives, us kids as a father figure, and my Mom, a husband. This whole situation stemmed from that one act, and I've realized that he's the one I should resent for it, and justifiably so. I don't resent him to on one hand, as the reason he left was something that I won't share, as it's something personal that I don't like to talk about, but it was motivated out of guilt. On the other hand, the situation that caused the guilt was something that was totally his fault, and something that I alone have had to live with for years since. Because of that, I'll hate that man forever. I don't know where he is, what he's doing or what he's done with the rest of his life, but I hope beyond hope that he's pushing up daisies for what he did to my family. Is that harsh, or whatever adjective you'd use to describe the feeling? Yep! Do I care? Not in this lifetime, or the next.
 
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