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The welfare reform that we need is "Weed out the abuse", the welfare reform that people seem to push for is "Well the system is broken, we might as well scrap it"
i'm sorry, did you say "we need weed"? thats what i heard.....ok, if you insist

but seriously, when i was 21 i was newly married, with a college degree, working with troubled youth for $10/hour and my wife worked part time. we were responsible, no debt (except student loans), cheap apartment, cheap car, you get the idea. suddenly baby number 1 makes his presence known (yeah, he was a suprise). my job's healthcare plan was 60% of my take home pay, so i didnt carry it. we needed health care, so we went on medicaid. tell me what i could have done differently 47_masoN_47
 

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When that situation happens you shouldn't go to the government for help. You go to family and close personal friends, if they can't help you turn to you church or community for help. If the government didn't take a third of my income to pay for social services I would have even more to give to charity to help out people in those exact situations. "We the People" is the solution to so many problems in this country. Every time something goes wrong we shouldn't turn to the government to fix it. The government is the problem not the solution.
i dont know what planet you live on that churches provide health insurance. we didn't need a monetary handout, we needed healthcare to cover the thousands and thousands of dollars to cover prenatal care and the birth. do you know how much it costs to give birth in a hospital without insurance? do you know how much an ultrasound costs without insurance?
 

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I dont know what planet you live on that churches provide health insurance. we didn't need a monetary handout, we needed healthcare to cover the thousands and thousands of dollars to cover prenatal care and the birth. do you know how much it costs to give birth in a hospital without insurance? do you know how much an ultrasound costs without insurance?
There are actually several hospitals run by religous organizations all over the country that help in this exact circumstance. They provided discounted rates and long term payment plans. Many also even forgive entire bills for those who can't afford them. Almost the exact situation my brother faced about a year and a half ago.
and what kind of burdern would be placed on these hospitals if things like medicaid did not exist? i seriously doubt they could handle that patient load.
 

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I dont know what planet you live on that churches provide health insurance. we didn't need a monetary handout, we needed healthcare to cover the thousands and thousands of dollars to cover prenatal care and the birth. do you know how much it costs to give birth in a hospital without insurance? do you know how much an ultrasound costs without insurance?
There are actually several hospitals run by religous organizations all over the country that help in this exact circumstance. They provided discounted rates and long term payment plans. Many also even forgive entire bills for those who can't afford them. Almost the exact situation my brother faced about a year and a half ago.
and what kind of burdern would be placed on these hospitals if things like medicaid did not exist? i seriously doubt they could handle that patient load.
Not too much in the long run, as the hospitals owned by the big insurance companies will soon finish the job of driving them out of business.
man fourboxes, you always seem to have the perfect answer (that's not sarcasm, i'm serious).

speaking of insurance companies and all that, i just have to vent for a second. last month my father in law had a pretty serious kidney stone with a secondary infection. he was in incredible pain, and he is not a wimp (he's not superman, he's just not a wimp). anyway, after 36 hours in the hospital, they basically kicked him to the curb with 5 painkillers (not 5 different kinds, i mean 5 pills) and told him if it gets bad (which it already was) to come back. why? well because the hospital only makes so much money if you are insured, they know the insurance company is only going to pay so much for a hospital stay, so the hospital wants to move patients out. at the same time, there is a $1500 co pay for my father in law for every hospital admittance. so instead of going back to the hospital, he just stayed in bed for 4 days until he passed the stone, laying there in excrutiating pain, barely using the pain meds because he barely had enough to get through one day. anyway, thats just one of many stories I have about Kaiser, i freakin hate that company. but, its the best i can get, so i fork over 10% of my salary every month to them. its a crime
 

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Ouch Dustin,
Not to sound mean, but here it goes:
Here is a short list of folks who help families out on a daily basis, and do it out of humility:

The Masons - That's right, your local Masonic lodge will help just about anyone... and they don't take out a 2 page ad in the newspaper to brag about it either. This is little-known to those who don't know any1 who is a Mason.

The Shriners - You must be a Mason before you can go to the Shrine. The Shriner's have their own hospitals, and are very quick to help those without insurance to get medicated/operated. They are especially generous to children and young adults. (I always buy those almond bars they sell at the store, and give them to the next kid I see coming into the store.)

The Church - Churches love to help people in their community, but be aware that this is only a short-time deal, as the
church has bills to pay just like you and me. A Church will normally help with rent/mortgage, food, power, and water. Do not think that you will be issued a debit card and get to spend how you see fit.

Soup Kitchens - It isn't the best food in the world, but if you and your family are hungry, you will eat. Do not feel ashamed for eating at a soup kitchen, the construction workers who are being "cheap" and eating at the soup kitchen are the ones who should be ashamed of themselves.

The Neighbors - If you live in a tight-knit community, you may be able to receive a little help from those around you. You may be able to "earn" money from them instead of asking for "help". Cutting grass, raking leaves, washing cars, cleaning gutters, painting things, or walking dogs all come to mind that can be done in a neighborhood situation.
but all those people are not going to pay your tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills. they don't have the resources. even if they helped the occasional person, they wouldn't have the ability to take care of all the poor in this country.
 

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That sir just strait stooooopid, close friends, family, churches, and community are not obligated in any way to help you out in the hard times, there has to be systems in place to ensure that people can survive. "we the people" are greedy as f*ck, and there are a shat load of us that wont give a dime to charity.
I think you would be really suprised at the amount of charitable contributions that are made in this country. In 2006 the most recent year I can find data for Americans gave almost $300 billion to non-profits. That amounted to about 2.2 percent of after tax income. I think that if Americans were taxed less they would give even more. Another thing left out of that number is the amount of time and labor volunteers "gave" to charities. The Founding Fathers wrote "We the People" not "We the Government".
in 2007 the federal govt (a "lean" year), not including what every state contributed, spent 1.622 trillion on social healthcare and welfare, including medicaid, medicare, social security and VA benefits. I doubt the American public could kick in that much money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget,_2007
 

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in 2007 the federal govt (a "lean" year), not including what every state contributed, spent 1.622 trillion on social healthcare and welfare, including medicaid, medicare, social security and VA benefits. I doubt the American public could kick in that much money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget,_2007
If healthcare moved away from insurance or gov't programs youd' see spending go way down. Most of what we spend is to eek a year or two extra out of someone who is very, very likely to die soon. If the lion's share of the cost were placed on the idividual, their family or their community, you'd see more people moving into things like hospice care.

I don't know if that's a good or bad thing for the country, but for me, if I have the choice between living to 65 and dying when its evident my time is near, or living to 70 after spending tens and hundreds of thousands on those last 5 years, I'd like to think I'm man enough to go at 65.
i'd like to think i'm man enough to go at any moment :p :rip:
 
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