Gasoline could drop 50 cents/gallon by Spring !!!

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by Shootest 995, Feb 6, 2008.

  1. Shootest 995

    Shootest 995 Guest

    Gee when demand goes down so does the price! now i can honestly say I haven't changed my driving habits a bit, so thanks to all of you that have!!

    Gasoline could drop 50 cents/gallon by Spring


    SHOOTER Z Well-Known Member

    And I heard it could go up as they have put in an additive for summer traffic and it's expensive

  3. Shootest 995

    Shootest 995 Guest

    Well all bets are off if israel goes to war. As for the additives, I thought it was the winter additives that added to the cost?
  4. The added cost comes from switching blends period. Summer/Winter Winter/Summer. I expect gas to break the $4 mark here in Wisconsin this summer.

    I wish this guy was right but I don't think so..... :|
  5. they have us over the proverbial barrel...if you think they will let
    us up you are sadly mistaken.
  6. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    I think that you'll start seeing alot more "Blended" fuels that use more Biofuels such as Ethanol and even Benzine (Which I would suggest many should stay away from!) in order to keep prices on an even keel. Sort of like "cutting" liquor back during proabition: You get what you pay for, and sometimes not even that.
  7. Uraijit

    Uraijit Guest

    Ethanol is not cost effective. It could be if there weren't a $2 per gallon tariff on importing the stuff...

    There's nothing wrong with Ethanol as a fuel, but it's not going to be any cheaper.
  8. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    On the small scale that the US is producing, it's not yet cost effective, but Brazil has been having quite a bit of success keeping fuel costs down. But they've been building the infastructure since the 70's.

    As far as quality, I was saying I'd shy away from any fuel using Benzine. Nothing good comes from that caustic chemical.
  9. Uraijit

    Uraijit Guest

    I guess I misunderstood you, on the Benzine thing.

    The reason that Brazil can do it cost-effectively is that sugar cane is such a great source for Ethanol. Corn... it simply isn't. Lets see here, sugar cane (high in calories, calories=energy), corn grown in a field in Iowa? Sugar cane sits in the hot hot Brazilian sun soaking up energy... Corn doesn't even come close.

    As I said, we could import Ethanol from other countries effectively, but the outrageous tariffs make it prohibitive. Ethanol will not be a viable option unless the tariffs go away. And there's a lot of folks who don't want that to happen (Oil Companies, and the idiots pushing corn ethanol).
  10. Ethanol is basically moonshine. Its made from any starch or sugar-based feedstock, just about any plant that rots.

    All gas stations in South East Wisconsin blend 10% Ethanol in to all the gas they sell. Wiscosin produces a lot of Ethanol. More can be found on that here.

    Since its not a petroleum based product it wears on an engine more and mpg is lower. But I often though it would be a good way for us to wean ourselfs from that giant terrorist teet.
  11. JasonJ

    JasonJ Member

    ethanol isnt "basically" moonshine.. it IS. Ethanol is the chemical alcohol in drinking liquor.

    beer to wine... its all ethanol.

    most of the US oil and gas supply is typically from south american off shore drilling operations, not the middle east.. at least thats the story i had heard years ago.. dont know if its so true anymore.
  12. GlockMan

    GlockMan Member

    Heard the same thing and the oil companies are keeping the prices high for massive profits.
  13. Shootest 995

    Shootest 995 Guest

    The united states #1 and #2 suppliers of oil is mexico and canada. Just another reason why the powers to be are ramming the NAU/SPP down our throats. Oh the next meetng of the Tri Lateral committee for the NAU/SPP is in NO, LA in April of this year.
  14. Oil Imports
    Where does America get all the oil it needs? The U.S. imports roughly half the total -- over ten million barrels of crude oil a day.

    Canada is the top source, at nearly 1.8 million barrels. Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela are numbers two through five, each exporting more than one million barrels a day. Angola, Iraq, Colombia, Kuwait and Algeria round out the top ten; each exports between 273,000 to 641,000 barrels a day.

  15. So, what you're saying is, we should wean ourselves from imported oil because it is expensive and instead use imported ethanol? I take the "idiots pushing corn ethanol" comment a bit personal. Not because I grow it or sell it and certainly not because I make it. But here is the deal. I live 6 miles from a huge ethanol plant. This plant provides hundreds of higher than average paying jobs. Hundreds of jobs here is very significant because we live in a very small, rural area and jobs are tough to come by. I work for a small, locally owned, Ford dealership. Our main customer base is dairy farmers. Guess what? They are seldom rich. Because of that they don't spend a lot to fix, maintain, or replace their auto's. But that is changing and not all that slowly. Many local farmers have taken to growing and selling corn for the production of ethanol, extra money in their pockets. The corn, finally being used instead of piled in fields waiting to be used as in years past, is now worth something. So many farmers who sell chickens, beef, or hogs for butcher also charge more for these products as it costs so much more to feed the animals to raise. Again, more money for the farmer. Guess what? Now these farmers are able to afford to fix their vehicles, replace their trucks (New diesels run in excess of $45k!) repair and replace machinery, and in many cases even buy some toys like boats, guns, ATVs, and so on. What this means, very simply, is they are spending money WHERE I WORK! Where others in this town and towns all across the state work! The money isn't leaving the country. Do people even understand that once we spend our money on gasoline and that money goes over seas it is gone forever? How many OPEC people have you seen in local towns across America keeping the economy going? Yeah, me neither.

    Spending money is a chain. When the farmers are struggling and are broke, a huge portion of the society will follow suit. When the farmer is more "flush" with money that money will tend to be spread around allowing everyone to have a little slice. Agriculture has long since been a major driving factor of our economy and it still is to this day. While corn may not be the best source for ethanol there is a reason that is what is used. A company called Archer Daniels Midland has funded many of the ethanol plants. ADM is also one of the largest seed corn producing companies out there. They are protecting their interest while funding a heckuva lot of R&D in advancements of the production of ethanol.

    Let me apologize if I sound like an A-hole here but I get awful sick of people whining about high gas prices while, in the same breath, criticizing people in our own country for trying to develop an alternate source of energy. The internal combustion wasn't perfectly efficient on gas or diesel in the first few years it was made, neither will an alternate source of fuel. But advancements will be made, as they have already, provided people allow it to happen. Kepp the money home folks, once it's gone, it's gone!
  16. Uraijit

    Uraijit Guest

    Ethanol is usually blended with a petroleum fuel, and it works just fine to keep from drying things out.

    Ethanol would be an AWESOME answer to terrorist oil reliance, but it's not practical to produce from corn.

    I haven't gotten much sleep, so my math may be all wrong, but if you have a car that gets 20 mpg, and you use E85 (85% Ethanol, 15% gasoline), your car is getting 133 MPG of oil-based fuel. About 66% of U.S. consumption of oil is from foreign oil, so you're getting 202 MPG of Foreign oil fuel. If you can figure out what percentage of our oil is purchased from the terrorist nations, you can do the math and see how much you've cut into the terrorist's bank accounts.

    Unfortunately, we don't have a good domestic source of Ethanol, so until we can start importing it, we will continue funding Islamic Terrorism. Like I said though, too many folks benefit from us not being able to import the stuff, and politicians are for sale to the highest bidder.
  17. rrjenn

    rrjenn Guest

  18. Uraijit

    Uraijit Guest

    Edited with afore-mentioned response.

    Don't presume to assign me my motives! You have no idea why I think we need to get off foreign oil! Though you might have been able to figure it out if you'd paid attention to my previous posts.

    Let me tell you why I think we need to get off imported oil.

    I did NOT say we should get off imported oil because it's expensive. We should get off foreign oil because it funds terrorism.

    I don't really think that gas prices are that out of hand. Some of the Chicken Little types feel differently than I do, and say that it's just not affordable... Somehow the folks I've talked to, myself included, manage to afford just as much as they did when it was $2 though... Go figure. My motives are not so selfish. If I didn't want to pay for gas, I'd ride the bus.

    Well... don't. I can't control the emotions you feel around the comment. I do stand behind the comment. Anybody who thinks that Corn ethanol is any sort of answer is either an idiot, or simply doesn't understand the first thing about it. I'm hoping you're in the latter category so I'm not wasting my time here.

    I'll take it a step further, and say that the people pushing it, are idiots. No exceptions. Either they're intentionally pushing something they know is wrong, or they're too stupid to actually find out about it before jumping on the bandwagon.

    I have no problem with people making more money, good for them!

    This is where I get off. Basically this is the classic case of a solution looking for a problem. If the corn is not useful, then don't grow it! Just because the corn is there, doesn't mean we have to come up with a use for it, at the expense of better options.

    If you have a surplus of a cure for a disease, do you go around infecting people with the disease so you'll have a use for all those extra shots? The concept sounds pretty f***ed up, doesn't it?

    And less money for everybody buying the products. This isn't pumping money into the economy, it's draining it out of people's pockets. Again, I don't have a problem with capitalism though, good for them making more money. However, just because it benefits a small farm community, doesn't mean it benefits the rest of the country. The rising cost of groceries affects EVERYBODY negatively, because we've all got to eat!

    I'm sorry, but I just can't get too excited about this. Your local economy is stimulated, but it does nothing for the real problems.

    I don't think it's worth it to force the country pay money to help a bunch of zealots kill Americans, just so Farmer John can buy a shiny new truck!

    My priorities are just funny like that.

    So none of the farmers employ illegal workers then, correct? Cause if they do, that money's still leaving the country.

    Not quite. The economy is a global one these days. So if you believe that the money just goes somewhere and is kept in a jar, you're a little off the mark. Our money is useless to them unless it comes back to us in exchange for goods and services. If this was 1620, and we were dealing with gold as currency, then such simplistic thinking would be closer to reality.

    Where's the money come from? In order for someone to gain financially, somebody else has to lose something. Money is not an infinite resource. So bolstering the farmers, just costs everybody else more money. We can't all be rich.

    The reason that it's used is because the folks who benefit from it, have purchased their little lab dog politicians. End of story. It's not cost effective, practical, or otherwise worth a damn. Corn is a major food staple, and there's plenty of folks willing to buy it. Dija hear about them "tortillia riots"? People have been eating the stuff for years!

    If it's such a good source of fuel, why is it necessary to block out other sources? Why can't it compete on its own merit?

    Correction; "R&D in the production of CORN ethanol". Again, back to the answer looking for a problem. Corn isn't a good source of Ethanol, however it is an okay source of Ethanol... So the idea was to block the import of reasonably priced ethanol that comes from other sources, in order to corner the market and create a Corn Industry Monopoly on ethanol. Many countries have already developed the technology for sugar cane Ethanol, and it works just great!

    It doesn't help with our dependence on foreign oil, it doesn't bring down the cost of fuel. It really doesn't answer ANY problems associated with fuel. Who would buy such a worthless product?

    So what do they do? They run to pay off their lap dogs, and have them pass laws that REQUIRE that ethanol be put into gas. Not only does it not solve any problems, it reduces fuel efficiency, further burdening the Average Joe consumer.

    They didn't solve a single problem, just created some problems with laws, and some "answers" to keep it all a wash. We're still heavily dependent on foreign oil, Gas prices aren't any lower (they're now higher in some instances), and we're still funding terrorism... Did I miss anything?

    First of all, I don't think you're an "A-hole" I just think you're wrong.

    Don't take this the wrong way, but I really don't think you understand it all. ...guess it's my turn to sound like an A-Hole.

    I don't complain about gas prices. Like I said, I think they're fine. I don't necessarily like paying $3 instead of $2, but I'd also like to have only paid $10,000 for my Tahoe. Does that mean that what I paid for my Tahoe wasn't fair, just because I wish it was cheaper? No.

    Some folks think that way, but I ain't one of them.

    I don't have a problem with companies developing new technology. I have a problem with them using government to hand them a monopoly and forcing us to buy their product. Forcing people to buy something they don't need, and eliminating alternatives? Dictation of what can and can't be sold? Communism anybody?

    Got news for you, the internal combustion engine's thermal efficiency is a pathetic 26%! It's nowhere near "perfectly efficient"!

    Again, the question is WHY? Corn Ethanol is a problem looking for a solution! The only way we're "not allowing it to happen" is by preventing us from importing it. If Ethanol were commonly available, it would be worth developing the technology and infrastructure.

    Even if corn ethanol production does become efficient and cost-effective, there's NO WAY we could ever grow enough corn to create enough fuel for the country! Not even close! Even if we allocated ALL of our corn crops to growing "fuel corn". And even then we still wouldn't get to eat it, or feed it to livestock.

    So is it better to rely on foreign food supplies than foreign fuel? I think not.

    The technology has already been developed in Brazil. Sugar Cane is FAAAARRRRR more efficient than corn can ever hope to be. It's a simple matter of biology. You can't get more energy from a plant, than it has to offer. Period. And corn just doesn't have much to offer.

    It's all just politics.

    If certain "farmer" states want to pass laws that require the use of their own ethanol in the fuel in their state, that's fine. But there's not enough ethanol for the rest of us. Federal blockades on alternative fuels are only hurting the country's economy.
  19. Thayldt21

    Thayldt21 Senior Member Member

    I have an 03 f150 with some mods

    I tok a long trip cross country.

    The truck gets 400 miles per tank under load driving normaly.

    The wife and I decided to get some of this all american corn fuel, as it was cheaper and we wanted to see how it would do.

    I did not notice ANY diference in performance. IE it still had well over 300hp hitting the ground.

    However my MPG suffered by almost half.

    I would not be bothered what so ever using said fuel on a regular basis in the truck IF I had double the fuel capacity. Pain in the rear to look at fuel gauge and see you have only gone a little more than 200miles and need to refuel already.

    The cost per mile does come out to be more as you use more fuel per mile.

    However I agree with Wildman, It will ge cheaper and well, My truck is not designed to run on that stuff.

    Before some ford guy jumps me for my MPH to tank mileage, The truck is moded and I have the 35 gallon fuel tank, and drive conservativly.

    450miles per tank without load.

    Ethinol is a great idea if only we used a different crop, IE I watched a show that covered this and seems there is a grass that yields more ethinol per acer by more than double.

    the technology is there the infustructure is not, and too many people against it for one reason or another.

    any one remeber Synthetic oil, Yeah i SAID i'D NEVER USE IT. Turns out it is infact better. Go figure. Now that all I use.
  20. After reading that comment I decided the rest of your tale would be worthless reading to me, and, after a quick scan, determined it is. I don't give two red cents what you plan to tell me. Exporting American money to buy a product we can readily manufacture at home is completely stupid! When that money is exported it is gone from the economy for good. When we spend it at home a huge percentage of it stays at home in a circle. Yes in the beginning of this process certain groups will profit while others will feel a strain in spending on the higher prices. But the circle will complete and everything will even out.

    Also before getting too hung up on sugar based ethanol be aware that the auto manufacturers are working very close with major meat suppliers, such as Jenny O, to begin producing cellulose based ethanol. General Motors expects to have vehicles ready to run on this in as little as 3 years. Hopefully they can design them to run on any mixture of sugar or cellulose based but that may take longer. There is an old saying, don't hang all your coats on one hook. Diversify. Above all, work to keep money at home!

    Thayldt21, just be careful running too much E85 in your truck. Your fuel injectors and lines are not designed to run the more corrosive fuel and damage can result. Also the computer cannot compensate for the lower efficiency of E 85 which as you know will cause lower fuel economy. To date there are no known "conversion" kits to allow older vehicles run on E 85.