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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Fridays paper stated that the reason for the shortage(here in Oklahoma),is due to an 87% increase in concealed carry permits (from February '08- February '09). While most of the increase is due to the election,some people are arming themselves due to an increase in home invasions and other violent crimes.What is the increase percentage in other areas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That was in the Tulsa World.I think alot of people never felt the need to be armed because of a "I live in a good neighborhood" complex.When crimes hit close to home everyone panics.I too have been armed for years.
 

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I spoke with one dealer I'm friendly with today at a gun show. He was completely out of Hi-points. Said he sold his last two today. Two different lady's bought his last C9's.

I also saw some dipstick walking around trying to sell an SKS for $800..... this is getting out of hand.
 

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In most major cities, crime is actually DOWN. In Phoenix, while ID theft is up (obviously...in this economy it's to be expected), violent crime has seen a steady decrease. Auto crime and theft is holding steady, but vandalism is up. There is worry about drug cartel violence spreading to Phoenix, but as of right now it seems to be a media buzzword more than a fact of any life.

Other friends of mine in Houston and Boston have noticed the slight trend too, but arms sales are still high in those cities. Boston is more obvious, since Mass has some pretty strict laws in that respect, but shops still have product. The firearms are harder to get, but there doesn't seem to be as much "panic" as in Houston or in the Midwest. Phoenix has always been an expensive place for firearms, so there's no shock there.

The spike in arms sales is strictly a panic situation. Much like last year when we saw '94 Geo Metros going for $10,000 because many thought that this was the ONLY time they could get a gas sipper because they didn't think ahead. Many then also sold autos that weren't that inefficent for fire sale prices just to get a Prius or Metro, only to find the markets stabilizing. Now, alot of those small cars are going BACK on the market, and auto makers have a surplus of Prius and Escape Hybrids on the lots!

I honestly feel we may see the same thing with firearms. With "Panic" comes irrational actions. We're all guilty of it: It's what makes us human. In fact, I spent quite alot of time today meditating on what I truly need and what is purely a "want" with no practical merit. Many new AR-15, AK-47 and other assault rifle owners have never owned a gun in THEIR LIFE and are simply buying because they hear the baseless rumors and only know about firearms from Hollywood movies. I have seen MANY buy a $2000 AR-15, buy another 5,000 rounds in ammo and never realized how it's used. In fact, at a local gun shop I frequent, A man traded in his '01 Nissan pickup to buy ONE AR, a Springfield pistol and massive counts of ammo!! The clerk told me he asked him why he needed a gun quickly and he said "Well, they say there going to ban all guns, so I got to get them now". Turns out the truck was his only mode of transport, and his wife (who he called to pick him up with his new purchases) refused to come by after hearing that he sold the family car to get two firearms.

Others are buying out of "implied urgency". Think back to the small car analogy again. People spent TONS of money over sticker on compacts to "fight the gas crisis", and the same types also bought a TON of cheap little Chinese made motorscooters that suddenly cropped up during the fuel spike. Many of the people who bought them in Phoenix drove LESS than 10 miles a day to and from work!! Now, they have a car they really don't use, and a Chinese scooter that broke down within the first two months that they can't unload. They did not NEED a $30k Prius when the $10k Chevy Malibu was actually a decent car. But, because it was a "Hybrid" and dealers were "running out" during the fuel crisis, they bought hard and now are paying for it.

This translates well to firearms purchases. Many of us on here know about "applied usage" and how one gun is not best in every situation. The AR-15 is a fine rifle, but in less than 50 meters while you're out grocery shopping, it's about as useful as an electric butter knife. Others insist they're buying it for "Home Defence", but (and I don't know about you folks) at 3AM when you have an intruder, a Shotgun or revolver is ALOT easier to operate half asleep and stressed than a rifle with so many attachments (because it seems that everyone who hasn't owned a weapon before thinks that "tactical" accessories make the gun better) that you need to download the PDF before firing it!! It's the mentality that an assault rifle is *the* gun to have that has people making purchases that are frankly unsafe. When they need a revolver, they will go for the Uber-Glock because that's what hollywood pushes. When they can function quite well with a pump action Maverick 88, they will get the blinged out tactical version with folding stocks, extended tubes, solid slugs, laser sights and custom front and rear pistol grips because that's BETTER!!!

And more expensive.

That's not to say there is anything wrong with those weapons... hardly! But, does the manager of an olive garden who lives on the 11th floor of a middle class building really need to spend $3000 to $5000 on a weapon to defend his family when he can spend $1500 to $2000 on SEVERAL more applicable longarms and pistols that may not look as cool, but will be far more effective?

That's where the panic is coming from. The same consumerist mentality that got the US and the world into this economic crisis is driving gun prices artifically sky high. Why buy a .38/.357 when you can buy a .454 Casull because it's MORE BADARSE (and twice to three times the ammo cost, and with the inability to control as well for an infrequent shooter in tight spaces)? My prediction: Soon...not sure when... I think we will see a market correction on assault rifles and subsequent equipment. Sure, the basic AK's and such will still fetch decent prices, but those $3000 AR's and $800 SKS rifles will soon be coming down in price and hitting the market when the wives (or husbands) wonder why they're having a hard time making bills while the overpriced gun sits in the closet collecting dust after he's shown it off to his buddies in HR at the office. When an SKS goes for $300 and the AK goes for $1000, 9 times out of ten the uneducated will buy the AK because it's "cooler" and the movies tell us it's a mean gun, even when they fire the same round and the SKS is technically a more accurate weapon!

There will be a correction. When and how much, I have NO idea! But.... something like that will occur.
 

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In most major cities, crime is actually DOWN. In Phoenix, while ID theft is up (obviously...in this economy it's to be expected), violent crime has seen a steady decrease. Auto crime and theft is holding steady, but vandalism is up. There is worry about drug cartel violence spreading to Phoenix, but as of right now it seems to be a media buzzword more than a fact of any life.

Other friends of mine in Houston and Boston have noticed the slight trend too, but arms sales are still high in those cities. Boston is more obvious, since Mass has some pretty strict laws in that respect, but shops still have product. The firearms are harder to get, but there doesn't seem to be as much "panic" as in Houston or in the Midwest. Phoenix has always been an expensive place for firearms, so there's no shock there.

The spike in arms sales is strictly a panic situation. Much like last year when we saw '94 Geo Metros going for $10,000 because many thought that this was the ONLY time they could get a gas sipper because they didn't think ahead. Many then also sold autos that weren't that inefficent for fire sale prices just to get a Prius or Metro, only to find the markets stabilizing. Now, alot of those small cars are going BACK on the market, and auto makers have a surplus of Prius and Escape Hybrids on the lots!

I honestly feel we may see the same thing with firearms. With "Panic" comes irrational actions. We're all guilty of it: It's what makes us human. In fact, I spent quite alot of time today meditating on what I truly need and what is purely a "want" with no practical merit. Many new AR-15, AK-47 and other assault rifle owners have never owned a gun in THEIR LIFE and are simply buying because they hear the baseless rumors and only know about firearms from Hollywood movies. I have seen MANY buy a $2000 AR-15, buy another 5,000 rounds in ammo and never realized how it's used. In fact, at a local gun shop I frequent, A man traded in his '01 Nissan pickup to buy ONE AR, a Springfield pistol and massive counts of ammo!! The clerk told me he asked him why he needed a gun quickly and he said "Well, they say there going to ban all guns, so I got to get them now". Turns out the truck was his only mode of transport, and his wife (who he called to pick him up with his new purchases) refused to come by after hearing that he sold the family car to get two firearms.

Others are buying out of "implied urgency". Think back to the small car analogy again. People spent TONS of money over sticker on compacts to "fight the gas crisis", and the same types also bought a TON of cheap little Chinese made motorscooters that suddenly cropped up during the fuel spike. Many of the people who bought them in Phoenix drove LESS than 10 miles a day to and from work!! Now, they have a car they really don't use, and a Chinese scooter that broke down within the first two months that they can't unload. They did not NEED a $30k Prius when the $10k Chevy Malibu was actually a decent car. But, because it was a "Hybrid" and dealers were "running out" during the fuel crisis, they bought hard and now are paying for it.

This translates well to firearms purchases. Many of us on here know about "applied usage" and how one gun is not best in every situation. The AR-15 is a fine rifle, but in less than 50 meters while you're out grocery shopping, it's about as useful as an electric butter knife. Others insist they're buying it for "Home Defence", but (and I don't know about you folks) at 3AM when you have an intruder, a Shotgun or revolver is ALOT easier to operate half asleep and stressed than a rifle with so many attachments (because it seems that everyone who hasn't owned a weapon before thinks that "tactical" accessories make the gun better) that you need to download the PDF before firing it!! It's the mentality that an assault rifle is *the* gun to have that has people making purchases that are frankly unsafe. When they need a revolver, they will go for the Uber-Glock because that's what hollywood pushes. When they can function quite well with a pump action Maverick 88, they will get the blinged out tactical version with folding stocks, extended tubes, solid slugs, laser sights and custom front and rear pistol grips because that's BETTER!!!

And more expensive.

That's not to say there is anything wrong with those weapons... hardly! But, does the manager of an olive garden who lives on the 11th floor of a middle class building really need to spend $3000 to $5000 on a weapon to defend his family when he can spend $1500 to $2000 on SEVERAL more applicable longarms and pistols that may not look as cool, but will be far more effective?

That's where the panic is coming from. The same consumerist mentality that got the US and the world into this economic crisis is driving gun prices artifically sky high. Why buy a .38/.357 when you can buy a .454 Casull because it's MORE BADARSE (and twice to three times the ammo cost, and with the inability to control as well for an infrequent shooter in tight spaces)? My prediction: Soon...not sure when... I think we will see a market correction on assault rifles and subsequent equipment. Sure, the basic AK's and such will still fetch decent prices, but those $3000 AR's and $800 SKS rifles will soon be coming down in price and hitting the market when the wives (or husbands) wonder why they're having a hard time making bills while the overpriced gun sits in the closet collecting dust after he's shown it off to his buddies in HR at the office. When an SKS goes for $300 and the AK goes for $1000, 9 times out of ten the uneducated will buy the AK because it's "cooler" and the movies tell us it's a mean gun, even when they fire the same round and the SKS is technically a more accurate weapon!

There will be a correction. When and how much, I have NO idea! But.... something like that will occur.
that sir, is why I truly love my lil ol ugly pistol and carbine.....cheap and effective....heck with the gun snobs and the hollywierd versions of the world....i have my own little space :yes: :yay!: :laugh:
 

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In most major cities, crime is actually DOWN. In Phoenix, while ID theft is up (obviously...in this economy it's to be expected), violent crime has seen a steady decrease. Auto crime and theft is holding steady, but vandalism is up. There is worry about drug cartel violence spreading to Phoenix, but as of right now it seems to be a media buzzword more than a fact of any life.

Other friends of mine in Houston and Boston have noticed the slight trend too, but arms sales are still high in those cities. Boston is more obvious, since Mass has some pretty strict laws in that respect, but shops still have product. The firearms are harder to get, but there doesn't seem to be as much "panic" as in Houston or in the Midwest. Phoenix has always been an expensive place for firearms, so there's no shock there.

The spike in arms sales is strictly a panic situation. Much like last year when we saw '94 Geo Metros going for $10,000 because many thought that this was the ONLY time they could get a gas sipper because they didn't think ahead. Many then also sold autos that weren't that inefficent for fire sale prices just to get a Prius or Metro, only to find the markets stabilizing. Now, alot of those small cars are going BACK on the market, and auto makers have a surplus of Prius and Escape Hybrids on the lots!

I honestly feel we may see the same thing with firearms. With "Panic" comes irrational actions. We're all guilty of it: It's what makes us human. In fact, I spent quite alot of time today meditating on what I truly need and what is purely a "want" with no practical merit. Many new AR-15, AK-47 and other assault rifle owners have never owned a gun in THEIR LIFE and are simply buying because they hear the baseless rumors and only know about firearms from Hollywood movies. I have seen MANY buy a $2000 AR-15, buy another 5,000 rounds in ammo and never realized how it's used. In fact, at a local gun shop I frequent, A man traded in his '01 Nissan pickup to buy ONE AR, a Springfield pistol and massive counts of ammo!! The clerk told me he asked him why he needed a gun quickly and he said "Well, they say there going to ban all guns, so I got to get them now". Turns out the truck was his only mode of transport, and his wife (who he called to pick him up with his new purchases) refused to come by after hearing that he sold the family car to get two firearms.

Others are buying out of "implied urgency". Think back to the small car analogy again. People spent TONS of money over sticker on compacts to "fight the gas crisis", and the same types also bought a TON of cheap little Chinese made motorscooters that suddenly cropped up during the fuel spike. Many of the people who bought them in Phoenix drove LESS than 10 miles a day to and from work!! Now, they have a car they really don't use, and a Chinese scooter that broke down within the first two months that they can't unload. They did not NEED a $30k Prius when the $10k Chevy Malibu was actually a decent car. But, because it was a "Hybrid" and dealers were "running out" during the fuel crisis, they bought hard and now are paying for it.

This translates well to firearms purchases. Many of us on here know about "applied usage" and how one gun is not best in every situation. The AR-15 is a fine rifle, but in less than 50 meters while you're out grocery shopping, it's about as useful as an electric butter knife. Others insist they're buying it for "Home Defence", but (and I don't know about you folks) at 3AM when you have an intruder, a Shotgun or revolver is ALOT easier to operate half asleep and stressed than a rifle with so many attachments (because it seems that everyone who hasn't owned a weapon before thinks that "tactical" accessories make the gun better) that you need to download the PDF before firing it!! It's the mentality that an assault rifle is *the* gun to have that has people making purchases that are frankly unsafe. When they need a revolver, they will go for the Uber-Glock because that's what hollywood pushes. When they can function quite well with a pump action Maverick 88, they will get the blinged out tactical version with folding stocks, extended tubes, solid slugs, laser sights and custom front and rear pistol grips because that's BETTER!!!

And more expensive.

That's not to say there is anything wrong with those weapons... hardly! But, does the manager of an olive garden who lives on the 11th floor of a middle class building really need to spend $3000 to $5000 on a weapon to defend his family when he can spend $1500 to $2000 on SEVERAL more applicable longarms and pistols that may not look as cool, but will be far more effective?

That's where the panic is coming from. The same consumerist mentality that got the US and the world into this economic crisis is driving gun prices artifically sky high. Why buy a .38/.357 when you can buy a .454 Casull because it's MORE BADARSE (and twice to three times the ammo cost, and with the inability to control as well for an infrequent shooter in tight spaces)? My prediction: Soon...not sure when... I think we will see a market correction on assault rifles and subsequent equipment. Sure, the basic AK's and such will still fetch decent prices, but those $3000 AR's and $800 SKS rifles will soon be coming down in price and hitting the market when the wives (or husbands) wonder why they're having a hard time making bills while the overpriced gun sits in the closet collecting dust after he's shown it off to his buddies in HR at the office. When an SKS goes for $300 and the AK goes for $1000, 9 times out of ten the uneducated will buy the AK because it's "cooler" and the movies tell us it's a mean gun, even when they fire the same round and the SKS is technically a more accurate weapon!

There will be a correction. When and how much, I have NO idea! But.... something like that will occur.
can i get an amen!

SW
 

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The pistol caliber carbine has to be one of THE best urban defence configurations ever! I personally can't wait till the 4595 hits retail! I'm actually considering on passing on my SKS once I get it back believe it or not. The ammo is expensive and for my applications, I cannot maximize it the way I can use a 995/4595. All about application baby! :cool2:
 
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AMEN!
I would say "Preach it, brother!" but, well..you know....

No, seriously I agree with every aspect of what you just posted, Neo. Every aspect, and it seemed like you expounded on my thoughts on the very same issues. Reactionary acts vs Proacting living.
One thing you were a little light on, was the whole "idea" of a $150 pistol is not as worthy as a $1200 one. Same thing with vehicles, and so on, and so on.....
Its the Perception, that a bigger pricetag, means its better than the less expensive ones. If one followed that path, they would be in for a real rude awakening. Anyone here who lives from paycheck to paycheck, understands that, even if on a different scale.
 

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In fact, at a local gun shop I frequent, A man traded in his '01 Nissan pickup to buy ONE AR, a Springfield pistol and massive counts of ammo!! The clerk told me he asked him why he needed a gun quickly and he said "Well, they say there going to ban all guns, so I got to get them now". Turns out the truck was his only mode of transport, and his wife (who he called to pick him up with his new purchases) refused to come by after hearing that he sold the family car to get two firearms.
Amen? Not hardly. All I see is a bunch of conjecture and opinion backed up by made up scenarios like above. I don't mean to bust chops, well ok maybe I do, but I find the vast majority of that post to be made up BS. You could be right about your crime projections in various cities but do you have any citations to back up your claims? Neo you continue to claim everyone buying guns is doing out of "panic" and fear. Yet above you also chastise us stupid people for paying 10G's for a 14 year old Metro (BS!) because we didn't plan ahead. So which is it? Tell people they are idiots for panic buying while "planning ahead" or tell them they are idiots for paying five time retail afterwords for failing to "plan ahead"? Forgive me for growing very tired of your constant "people are idiots" BS. It just seems every thread of yours lately is loaded with all these idiots you seem to run into that have $2000 ARs and no clue how to use them. I may have missed it but where is the sign up sheet for Neo's Classes of Success: Course One-How to earn cash to buy guns. Course Two-How to use Guns.

There I feel better. Have at it.
 

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Lets be nice. Its good to be able to discuss real issues so I wont lock this one, but the instant it becomes a poop throwing match.... *clink*
 

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As for the gun prices in Phoenix, they ARE that high. Ask anyone on this board in Arizona: We pay some of the highest rates for firearms outside of California. Don't know why, but that's the way it's been. As for the $10,000 Geo Metro from about a year ago... it was on a Craigslist ad in the Phoenix/Metro area out of Glendale that I had posted on this forum a while ago when fuel was at it's peak. Pretty sure no one bought it, but it was an excellent example of the hype. It's still the reason why I can buy a $750 Crown Victoria from '00 to '03: Gas prices forced entire fleets to dump their V8's and you can still find a surplus here. The case of the Nissan being traded for two firearms was at a Pawn shop called Liberty Pawn in Mesa, AZ. They have unusually high prices on Springfields, Glocks and AR's, but "ok" prices on Taurus and slightly high prices on Hi-Points when they do have them in. Wouldn't call them a "Gun Shop" because the volume just isn't there.

Justification enough?

And, in closing: You don't agree with my posts....fine. Well enough. But, not everyone's perspective is like yours, and not everyone thinks the way you think they should. I don't claim to be the expert on everything firearms related, I only relate my opinions and experiences. There are MANY things on here I disagree with and dislike (many jokes in the Humour lounge come to mind), but sometimes it's better to mind one's opinions and understand that everyone has a different view on things, so I let others have the same rights I try to exercise and we all have a good time.

Your opinion has been noted. Thank you.
 

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What caught my attention mostly was the guy that sold the family vehicle but then called the wife to come pick him up. Mainly curious what she'd pick him up with what with selling the family vehicle and all.

And I know how you are a stickler about not letting people get away with claiming half truths about things you claim to be educated in, politics being one. (I recall a rather brazen statement you made awhile back about being able to put the smack down on nearly anyone when it came to politics.) So knowing that I feel it is my duty to help ensure that people, yourself included, are not creating hype just to bolster their agenda. I'm no particular expert in anything but I do know BS when I smell it, see it, step in it, and taste it. And I sure smell it with all the surplus Crown Vics for $750. And to be sure I figured I'd look.

http://www.carsoup.com/used/detail....vehicletypeid=1&uvviewid=4&page=1&certified=0

http://www.domesticsale.com/AutoSearch/

http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars....065&d=457&y=2000&c=16&vi=5553&da=-1&mi=117000

Now I'm simply saying that after a little computer related research I cannot find many of those surplus $750 Ford Crown Vics. Maybe they are indeed there but the local auto search and car Soup didn't reveal much and NADA seems to have a different opinion about the values of these automobiles.

Contrary to what you may believe I do not care what anyone else thinks or believes. Believe in what you want and say what you want, it is a free country. But when someone posts such obviously slanted stuff in a forum in attempt to sway the readers opinions or, gasp, mislead them then it is obvious that person is very concerned with what others think.
 

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I think I will jump in here before it gets locked. Now is a good time to buy a 5.45x39.5 AK clone as there is a lot more ammo available in that cal. then 7.62x39. If you run cross any Wolf 7.62x39 in 154 gr. SP consider buying it, it is hard hitting round for what it is and it is very hard to find right now.

When this rush started anything nonmilitary could still be had for a fair price now it looks like everything is being scooped up.
 

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We are not going through this again. Wildman, regardless of your computer related research, have you seen anything online that would prove that it did not actually happen? Anything on snopes.com?


I will give this thread one last chance. One more derogatory post towards another member and it's done.
 

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I just like the thread title "Gun and ammo shortage"...not throwing any poop ;p;

I think there maybe a lack of what is available looking for something specific at your local shops, sorta the same with shops in my area. Though the private sales here in my area seem to of hit a huge increase in what is available. I don't know, maybe it is some facing hard times and needing to get rid of what they purchased but when I go looking I seem to find what I am looking for and then some in some of the classifieds lol.

Now ammo I will agree and I think there is not much anyone can do about it but buy what you need when you find it. I have the untouchable stash and then the surplus (is there such a thing? lol) I use for the range.

And to be honest I believe the story only because I see it every day on site like swapgiant, people trying to trade cars,boats and just about anything of value to get their hands on a firearm. It is hinky times and people are really showing a side rarely seen in the masses. It is not weird...just not the normal flow of things lol.
 

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OK...

I will post a few thoughts on the topic, and then an admonishment.

First, neo, dude, read the long post you made and I agree with most of it...perhaps there is a mistake in there somewhere, but I couldn't make one out at first inspection...

Secondly, I must agree that at some point, all of this panic buying will level out SOMEWHERE...simple supply-and-demand in economics dictates that. Also, the awareness of people who are starting to realize, in one way or another, that owning a weapon and caring for their own well-being is a far more certain way of ensuring their survival in these uncertain times than relying on the government for help seems to be on the rise a bit. More and more, people keep telling me that they're tired of all the lies and propaganda floating around society, and that they want the truth about things. More power to them...and hey, is it such a bad thing that there are more guns in circulation? At least most of these guns will end up staying in legitimate hands rather than ending up in some gang banger's mitts blazing away at regular folks!

Alright, now for the admonishment: mods/admins, thank you for staying on top of the behavior in this thread. Thanks to everyone else who has kept their cool and posted CONTRIBUTIONS to the thread instead of ASSUALTING the thread. However, to everyone who seems to see fit to turn one person's opinion and analysis into an excuse for personally attacking them, I say this: WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?!? WHY IS IT THAT EVERY THREAD ABOUT CURRENT EVENTS HAS TO TURN INTO SOME SORT OF MUDSLINGING CONTEST?!? YOU'RE ONLY RUINING OUR FORUM FOR THE REST OF US!!! If you have some sort of personal problem with another member, fine, take it up with him/her in a PM...BUT LEAVE THE HAPHAZARD REMARKS AND BRAZEN PERSONAL CRITICISM OFF OF OUR PUBLIC FORUM!!! Wildman, you've got a lot of good stuff to say, but can't you say it in a civil manner and bring any personal concerns to the members in question with whom you have an issue? Please? I, for one, would appreciate having an honest, open conversation for a change without the vehement hatred that everyone seems to allow to seep in more and more lately. Is this something of merit to ask of us, or am I just being a "bigot" and an "idiot"?

PLEASE--help keep our forum open and flowing by eliminating this type of harsh behavior! I don't know how to say it any clearer...

Well, anyway, thanks for reading, and I hope I didn't come across as being arrogant or condescending; that wasn't my intention. I just want things to have some degree of civility for both members and visiters on OUR forum.

Later, guys!

Jag 8)
 
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